NewTek Forum

NewTek Forum: LightWave 3D®: LW Community: NewTek/Luxology, Part II

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:41 am:

By Valan Chan (Valan) (203.198.2.3) on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:45 am:

Thanks for the continuation and I hope you had quite a... Chuck-le about the farse it turned out to be.

With things looking so bright for us users it is really silly to waste time on these foolish , soap opera like aspects.

Mind you...

Was the thread deleted or not?

Yes! It was.

While moderating the thread Chuck had his finger poised over the 'Delete' key. This material was getting too sesitive. Just too close to what was really happening. In a fit of rage Chuck pressed the key. 'Die, Die ,Die' he yelled. In this fit of rage, he cast his wrath on other threads also. Then Chuck realised he had made a major mistake. He had just created a matyre from which tens then hundred and thousands of such threads will populate his beloved forum.

Chuck tried in vain to re-instste them only to find that they were lost forever, oh no. He had been just too good in defining the correct software to use. Then he remembered the printout he had kept and delivered to the secret location.

NewTek staff could see him comming out from the dumpster, reeking of foul lefover pizza, beer and apple cores. But he had found it.
Through tired, bloodshot eyes and scrunched up index finger Chuck had to re-type every single letter. He wanted to fix the gramatical mistakes, but no it had to be exact. But he was too late... 'Blasted Users' he shreeked, 'We hates it'. Users had begun their tireless crusade to thwart the evil tyranny of Forum Censorship. Couragously they upheld there rights as registered Lightwave users and ...anyway you get the picture.

Now Chuck had to use two screens and two fingers. Like a mad pianist he hacked that keyboard and his waling now turning into almost inaudible mumblings of 'there geting closer, there getting closer' and 'almost finished, almost finished'.

Now we have what only appears to be the original threads. You check the corrected spelling and the cleaned up grammer, and then you will see.

... And behold the goodly knights fighting against forum censorship, broken links and ... oh dear, what ever!!

Goodnight all.
Tomorrow is another day.

Valan

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (66.69.70.123) on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 06:29 pm:

By Jessica Vitale (Jvitale) (209.178.131.108) on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 06:53 pm:

By the way, if you think this thread has been speculated ad nauseam, check out what they are saying on the CG Talk forum....heh heh heh

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 12:52 am:

By the way, it isn't me posting anything on CGchannel. I'm innocent!!!

I must say that Luxology seems to be quite good at promoting themselves. They get the headlines on CGchannel more than Newtek does. They make themselves look cool. I don't know what product they're cooking up, but they're getting everyone excited by saying it's going to change the face of 3D as we know it. On a purely promotional perspective, they're working it pretty well.

OK everyone, you can flame me now!

By Arnie Cachelin (Arnie) (217.78.172.105) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 06:14 am:

I heard that Maya was really great, but someone else said it sucked. Who is right?

By william vaughan (Proton) (207.235.86.2) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 06:52 am:

NewTek sends plenty of News Bites and Press Releases to CGChannel....NewTek has no say on what they do or do not post.

By Kevin Soderlund (Jevinstudios) (63.184.64.48) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 08:06 am:

I heard Martha Stewart is going to be the new CEO of Luxology. Is that a good thing? Their new 3D package will not only bake cinamon rolls and make hommade ice cream, it'll also give you the tools you need to create lovely coffee table tops out of old mirrors and will have an interface consisting of eye-pleasing muted green colors (with complimenting pale yellow patterns positioned perfectly on either side of the antique-looking icons, of course). Hey, with luck, this new app will also be appearing before Congress!

So get crafty, people. The face of 3D is going to be blond and bossy, with EXACTLY measured doses of nutmeg and lemon zest.

By Alan Kott (Fallen) (66.122.183.205) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 02:48 pm:

LMAO! Instead of drop down menus, it will have pull out drawers that show neatly arranged toolsets, some of which are beautiful antiques.

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.4) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 04:14 pm:

The exact quote from CGchannel:
"The guys at Luxology are working on some secret new product that will change the 3D industry".

Whether it does or not, this is great hype! The mystery around it increases their chances of getting a headline. Even people who don't like what Luxology is doing, or people using other 3D software can't wait to see what Luxology will pull from out of their sleeve. This is before the press release even comes out.

10/10 for promotion.

By Raymond Adams (Radams) (68.0.164.110) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 05:19 pm:

Beam, first get your info straight....
That quote is a quote from Meni...NOT from Luxology...so what this may or may not mean is still very unspecified....As I stated earlier this could mean that the DEV is going on for NewTek (by contract) on LW-8..Until something is announced OFFICALLY this is only wild speculations as to what & for whom this is about & for....

I'm looking forward to seeing LW-8 & all of the helpful solutions that this industry is creating...

Now lets get back to creating & adding to the feature list of LW-8 to help make our work easier & more creative!!!!!!!!

Ray Adams
R Creative Touch
radams6@hotmail.com

By Nigel Schutte (Nigel_Za) (198.54.202.4) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 08:01 pm:

hehe, the next person to start posting rediculous speculation will earn themselves a swift kick up the butt with my size 12, steel capped boot. You thought a prostate check-up was awkward ... u aint fealt nothing yet

Chuck, I admire your patience buddy. It's a quality seen less and less these days. Just remember those all important deep breaths

Cheers

Nigel

By Matt Clary (Mattclary) (208.255.196.63) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:10 pm:

Bump.

Told you I'd do it. Teach you to tease us.

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.139.116) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:36 pm:

Beam,

Everyone, Soft, A/W, NT, discreet are working on "some secret new product that will change the 3D industry". So it really doesn't matter.

Anyway, I'm the last to dig up rumours and crap, but I do have this friend of mine. really smart guy. He always had this habit if dropping these bombs right in the middle of a conversation, so "matter-of-factly". Its haunting. And everything he mentioned had some thruth to it. he's well connected from a programming point of view... he knows alot of people.

So we were talking about our job situatiuon and my other friend mentioned he was still using LW 5.6 but all he was doing was stills. Then the issues of upgrades came in and how much "farther" these programs had to go. then my "bomb dropping" friend mentioned how all development on LW has stopped since the programmers left. Having just endured that long thread here, to hear it re-opened like the red sea from a well repected friend who doesn't frequent these forums was such a shock.

I stammered...

I mentioned that I heard of Luxology, inquired to NT about it. My friend said that Allen and Stuart got tired of being treated poorly and decided to do their own thing... again so matter-of-factly. I stammered again... saying that when I inquired about Luxology that I was told that they were contractually obligated. My friend kinda shook his head with a mixtue of saddness and "yeah, right".

So I don't know how productive it is to post this, but I can't shake that dry feeling in my mouth. Truth is everybody is being tested. Things are shook up. I just don't see what "product" luxology can be cooking up "while" developing for LW.

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.139.116) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:43 pm:

I think beam is hyperventilating now!!!

By Mike Foy (Kingslugg) (66.47.191.138) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:50 pm:

You know what? Who cares! Even if Newtek suddenly spontaneously combusted I would still use their software for many years to come. Talk about conspiracy theory. Shouldn't we all be animating or modeling or something?

mike

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:58 pm:

Matt, is this really what you wanted to see happen?

Arthur, development is not at a halt. NewTek is actively proceeding with LightWave development.

By Mike Blackbourn (Mike_Rb) (64.180.102.69) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 01:08 pm:

Chuck, i believe he said "Even if".

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 01:26 pm:

Mike Foy said "even if" and I wasn't responding to him. If you look again you'll see I addressed "Matt", Matt Clary who bumped this inactive thread to the top; and Arthur, who responded to the thread with the 10,564,371 rumor of NewTek's demise since I started working here.

By Matt Clary (Mattclary) (208.255.196.63) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 01:45 pm:

I would say I'm sorry, Chuck, but I'm LMAO. These guys kill me. That will teach y'all to make us wait for William's suprise, we get bored.

By Todd Smith (Tsmit47) (216.187.193.48) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:41 pm:

What I do believe is Alan and Stuart are gone from NT thats for sure. Are they obligated by contract to NT? Who knows. Those are easy to get out of.

Sorry Chuck, I appreciate your comments but I find it hard to believe that NT will give me the whole truth. They want to cover thier butt Im sure.

I love Lightwave. Its cool. Could be better though. One things for sure I dont trust LW to continue to become the program it could have been without Stuart and Alan.

By Steve White (Hrgiger) (65.24.112.98) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:46 pm:

The only thing I don't understand is if you look at Luxology's site, you see Lightwave here, there, and everywhere mentioned, but when you look at who they say they have partnerships with, you'll notice that Newtek is not one of them. Why would they be pushing Lightwave so much only to bring out a product to compete with them? Is it possible that the product they're working on is not necessarily a 3D app but something that works with them?

By Todd Smith (Tsmit47) (216.187.193.48) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 04:11 pm:

I think its a whole new package. Brad Peebler said now isnt the time to just ship from LW. That may change in the future when they release a new package.

By Nigel Schutte (Nigel_Za) (198.54.202.4) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 04:14 pm:

*Takes aim at Matt's rump* .. He boot's .. HE SCORES!!! ... hehe .. Warned ya

For the love of all things good and pixelated, let this issue rest, I simply dont have the energy to delete another 100 e-mail notifications again.

By brad gordon (Anim8r) (12.101.14.2) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 04:27 pm:

Chuck,
(Better make that 10,564,372.)

Oh, good, I'm glad we're still growing tomorrow's paranoid delusionals. Whew, for a second there, I was worried there'd be no one to make fun of when I get old.

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.139.116) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 04:49 pm:

chuck,

As far as Lightwave development still going on... I believe you. However this further illustrates my previous points. My friend was/is/was/is a lightwave user: he's concentrating on houdini at work right now. He has nothing to gain by saying this. Yet someone/something led him to this conclusion. He's not alone, either. This can lead to damaging one's credibility, not to mention long discussion threads!!!!

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 05:57 pm:

Now, Arthur, you naughty boy. You know you're not allowed to talk about this subject. You've been told not to before!

People will think you are making up a conspiracy.

By Adam Jeffries (Zithen) (24.205.79.146) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 06:49 pm:

To me, the risk of creating a whole new different app outside Newtek makes no sense. That means you have to set up your own distribution channel, sales, marketing, etc. If you have to funds to do that, well that's a different matter.

Whether Brad was supposed to have or not, he did say that Luxology is working on the next generation of Lightwave. Of course, you have Chuck saying that Luxology has nothing to do with Lightwave or Newtek, so there you go.
I know one thing...this is whole sidestepping, speculation and "literal truths" is really starting to get on my nerves. What is the real truth...bottom line. If it can't be spoken, then I'd rather for there just to be no comment and leave it alone.
That's better than insulting people's intelligences, because it's perfectly obvious there is a contradiction with this issue.

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.139.116) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 07:34 pm:

Crap, what do I know, i've been away for three weeks... I'm just saying that its an issue that has only helped to weaken LW's stability as its perceived in its market and even amonst its users...

thats a fire I'd want to keep an eye on...

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 07:37 pm:

Luxology has already stated that it owns the intellectual property of Lightwave, a claim that Newtek fiercely disputes. When two companies are in a dispute, it's pretty hard to get an objective comment out of either side.

And what about Menithings? Some weeks ago he was firing up the speculation on CGchannel. He was going to do a revealing interview with Luxology. It was promoted, but the interview never materialized.

By Raymond Adams (Radams) (68.0.164.110) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 08:22 pm:

I think that the speculations here don't help to define what is & isn't....& hurt all of us & LW...

I would like to make one comment...

Chuck & NewTek have been consistent in there statements from day 1......

Brad has made several statements that have been changed or taken away...BUT he has made a VERY definitive statement here on this forum...

...............................
"While I can not disclose any information about what the magic elves are cooking, I can assure you all that the future is bright for LightWave artists. Don't go jumping ship on LW now! "...

"Remember, the best thing about LW is the community. No other app can even come close to what we have there. Let's keep that alive and we all win. I will do my best to keep information flowing about cool new LW projects, some fun tutorials and tech information as well.

Let's all do our part to help NewTek sell more LightWave!!! Call the neighbors and wake the kids. Lightwave is sweet. Go tell it on the mountain!

BP
www.luxology.net"...........

....................................

Now If, Luxology was to create another app to displace Lightwave then BRAD wouldn't be saying

"help NewTek sell more LightWave" or "the future is bright for LightWave artists. Don't go jumping ship on LW now!".....

In fact Brad is going out of his way to say that LW IS the app to get & that they at luxology will be adding to it.....

If BRAD isn't being truthful then he puts himself & luxology @ liabilty risk with both NewTek & Us the users.....

So let things ring out a little..Let NewTek & Luxology work out what's the best way to proceed...

Brad & Chuck, I seriously hope that negotiation & compromise will bring everyone back to supporting each other & I look forward to seeing a JOINT press annoucement helping us to understand it all...

Brad you commented:
"Remember, the best thing about LW is the community. No other app can even come close to what we have there. Let's keep that alive and we all win."

I hope that you seriously mean that & will help to make things clearer for all of us by working WITH NewTek.....

Chuck & Brad, I hope that this will be the last comment made on this subject & lets all get back to creating & helping to make a better product by supporting this COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!

Thanks,

Ray Adams
R Creative Touch
radams6@hotmail.com

By Alan Kott (Fallen) (63.207.239.108) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 08:39 pm:

Someone help me out here! There is a band with a lot of air time these days. If you play one of their songs backwards it says: This Thread is Dead! This Thread is Dead!

Anyone know who they are?

By Valan Chan (Valan) (203.198.23.25) on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 10:33 pm:

Arthur,
"Crap, what do I know, i've been away for three weeks... I'm just saying that its an issue that has only helped to weaken LW's stability as its perceived in its market and even amonst its users...

thats a fire I'd want to keep an eye on... "

It is EXACTLY this kind of rubbish that weakens any 'perception'.
And it is all down to you and others that have made it so. This was a suitable topic to comment on for a week or two but your continous comments is getting ridiculous.

You said in your post about your 'friend' that you 'stammered'. Well, I find that hard to believe since you always have plenty to say here.

I am proud to be a member of this community and understand how people can make career decisions based on it. I have. IMHO you are not helping or serving this community. You are making comments that show the community to be 'weak' when it is not.

Above all it is a very helpful community and you, Athur, are not helping.

Valan

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.139.116) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:58 am:

"It is EXACTLY this kind of rubbish that weakens any 'perception'. And it is all down to you and others that have made it so. "

Whoa-Valen, don't go Jim on me...

"This was a suitable topic to comment on for a week or two but your continous comments is getting ridiculous."

Well, this comment from my friend came up this week, and so did this post, for better or for worse...

"You said in your post about your 'friend' that you 'stammered'. Well, I find that hard to believe since you always have plenty to say here. "

Uh, like I said, Valen, don't go Jim on me... I stammered because of how my freind mentioned it so out of the blue and a matter a fact. Also because we have discussed this to death here and I guess Chuck's answers were sinking in to me.

"I am proud to be a member of this community and understand how people can make career decisions based on it. I have. IMHO you are not helping or serving this community. You are making comments that show the community to be 'weak' when it is not.

Above all it is a very helpful community and you, Athur, are not helping. "

Oh boo-effing-hoo Valen, so I mentioned a less than favorable subject. Oh poor you. Dude, the point is that the perception of highly intelligent professionals out there are affected by this. You know why? because they heard the CG article and perhaps the comments from a few disgruntled programmers. yet nothing from NT. Is it gospel? Most likely not, but it does affect their opinion.

My point to chuck and the gang at NT is that this issue has affected the perception of LW stability out there. yes they have been many claims of NT demise since the amiga days. That doesn't change things. So why weather a storm if you can change course? As I mentioned elsewhere: NT should do an article similar to the one on the VT2, that kinda states the state of 3D in general and how LW fits in it. Nothing relevant to luxology, and if they ask, the tim jennison answer of "not touching with a ten foot pole" would probablty suffice... It would do wonders for LW in the perception of professionals out there. Thats IS important to NT, as a good perception would definitly not hurt. I'm sure tons of e-magazines would love to hear from NT. Heck, go directly to CG channel if you want.

Like I've stated before, I can't stand it that as soon as someone brings up something serious, some folks here think you're a killjoy. Fact is this Luxology thing left a stink bomb that alot of people are smelling. people who I know that use LW in studios or have used it all have some bad view of all this. what can I tell you. Its the truth.

Now go back and stick your head in the sand....

By Valan Chan (Valan) (203.198.23.25) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:39 am:

Arthur,
Your getting seriously unbelivable.

"Fact is this Luxology thing left a stink bomb that alot of people are smelling."
And rather than opening windows and letting it go you keep it, run around seeing if others can smell it and then report back that they can.

"highly intelligent professionals out there" probably listen and then get on with there work because they realise the stupidity of theorysizing things to death.

"As I mentioned elsewhere: NT should do an article similar to the one on the VT2, that kinda states the state of 3D in general and how LW fits in it"
This is the only sensible thing I have heard you say.

I do not think you are a killjoy quite the oppsite. You seem to revel in the discomfort of others. You know this is a legal matter and Chuck has repeatedly told us everthything, that he can. Yet you still persist with your whining.

"Now go back and stick your head in the sand...."
No thanks, you're there.

Enter the LW competition and have fun.

Valan

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.139.116) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 03:03 am:

"And rather than opening windows and letting it go you keep it, run around seeing if others can smell it and then report back that they can."

Thats inaccurate. Like I said, my friend dropped this out of nowhere. How is that "running around seeing if others can smell it". How is it that asking a friend that I haven't seen in weeks how's it going and they start talking away how the other LW animators at their shop are talking of LW's demise any sort of evidence that I seek this out. Tell me valen, since you become as good as that nut Jim in distorting what I say. c'mon tell me your thinking, because one thing I can't stand beyond a pissy argument is someone who distorts what I say and then offers a pissy argument

And for that matter, how the crap is the opposite of being a killjoy is one who revels in the discomfort of others. explain that to me. Both seem rather unpleasant. make sense, man.

Call it whining, call it whatever you want. I've been a NT customer since digipaint. I've seen NT outlive alot of things. But do me a favor, read what I write before you type. You're blindly projecting your frustration of all the post here with the handful that were mine. Everything I present to Nt was as a suggestion to improve themelves, not some pipedream delusionof releasing version 8 or 9 or something. All I can offer is a window to the views that Nt may not be aware of, or for that matter, even care. thats up for them to decide.

By Valan Chan (Valan) (203.198.23.169) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 03:54 am:

Arthur,
I too have been a customer since Digi-Paint.

What I am thinking is that while this subject holds some interest I know that the product is far more interesting and relevent to my day to day work. The company is a secondary matter until people start to comment upon its competance and ability to servive. Even worse when these comments keep on, and on, coming from within. Brad Peebler made a mistake with his comments. He seems to know this and understands what is needed. NO COMMENT.

If you cannot see the harm these comments are doing to the company and hence the products then please consider the comments from Chuck. It is obvious that he sees this as a non issue now for LW users.

Valan

By stephen gilbert (Cresshead) (62.254.0.4) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 08:38 am:

Yawn!.....
how about some REAL NEWS???

a great plus from this "mess" [invisible mess actually]would be to have the next version of LW unified into one app with a single interface...and IF [loads of if's in these threads] the lw founders have gone..so will their "split app" attitude with a little luck..no more modeller's my baby and layout is yours for example...

Roll on progress...if you continue to look back to your roots, one day you'll walk into a wall!!!

steve g

By Jim Williams (Hiraghm) (65.70.121.97) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 03:24 pm:

Arthur, check a mirror before you refer to another as "that nut". How many threads is this that you've been harping on this non-issue? You keep it going, you keep it alive.

Just how attention-starved are you?

Keep the ad-hominem attacks to a minimum. You give me too much ammunition to fight back with.

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.139.116) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 05:44 pm:

This may come as a bit of a shock treatment to you jim, but after our last parle, I received private emails from others warning me of you. Their descriptions of your made my "nuts" look like a compliment. The only difference between me and them is that I have no problem expressing it publically here.

I suggest you take a moment and think about that....

Its great to see that we're on a first name basis now, Jim....

By Steve White (Hrgiger) (65.24.112.98) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 08:11 pm:

As much as I like to disagree with Jim , I have to agree with him here. You need to let this go... It's unproductive for one, and secondly and mroe important, you're whining. Just what is your motivation? Do you think if you keep humping this to death that NT is going to eventually break down sobbing and say "YES! We confess! You were right Arthur! How could we ever thought to have run a sucessful business for this long without keeping you, Arthur, informed of every business decision and the state of our business whether legally binding or not? We behaved in a manner the likes of which Enron will never know. We're sorry Arthur." Allow me to serve you your morning coffee to help you wake up- anh-anh, not going to happen. LET IT GO. Arthur, this really really smart friend of yours...is it you?

Chuck, any chance you can bury this thread too, and keep it away from say...any other threads that might be useful to the LW community?

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.16.201) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 09:31 pm:

Steve, take a look at the original Luxology thread.

http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/26226.html?1028905905

Count how many post I have. Register in what context I mention chuck and newtek.. Here I mentioned a recent chance encounter I had some friends on the subject. I noted those experiences here on this recent post with a suggestion to NT. How is this whining? How is is whining compared to the sometimes outrages posts on the original Luxology thread. Actually check the original thread. I stated that i felt that Chuck expained all that he should, and that the ball was in luxology's court. Again, how is that whining? How is that prying into Newtek's business parctices, especially in comparison to some of the other posts.

at lastly, if you're so tired of this thread, then don't read it. don't post on to it. Have whatever opinion of me, even if its unsubstanciated as I showed above, but don't whine about this thread if you easily have the option of ignoring it. You are actually making the effort to add to it only to ask people to stop posting on it. this makes no sense....

incidently, today I met for brunch a freind i havn't seen for close to six months. We were talking about our jobs, and then regarding 3D. When I mentioned that I was using my time off to catch up 7.5, her first comment was "wow, lightwave, those guys don't look like they are doing too well". Is passing this information on in these forums whining? As per Valen's comments, he finds such a discussion "not very helpful" to the community here. Steve, does this read to you as some attempt by me to "prove that I am right"? Or that i'm looking for favors from NT as your post so immaturely suggest.

From the other threads on this forum, where they compare LW to Maya, or even ask outright if LW is highend, I think people would be concerned if a substancial consensus is that "Lightwave/Newtek isn't doing to well".

By brad gordon (Anim8r) (68.84.8.9) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 10:31 pm:

Steve,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
(my favorite part was, "Do you think if you keep humping this to death..."
hehehe. whew...
you kill me.

Arthur,
Do all of your friends make their decisions by reading Michael Hash's minutes? Do you and your friends always worry about businesses that have consistently wowwed the critics and their general public for the last 12 years? What are your friends basing this info on?
Shheesh. Here's hoping you never offer stockmarket advice. You know, I read that exchange between you and Jim. It's hard to believe your the same guy. I thought your responses were pretty well written. But, wow, you really need to reread your posts on this thread. You are definately slipping. Our shop uses LW. But oddly enough, we're not conspiracy theory junkies running into each other and bouncing off walls. Luxology isn't ready to disclose anything yet and so what. You, me, Jim, Valan, Steve, (hell, you name 'em) don't know a frikkin' thing about what they're doing. Damn, I'd be surprized if Luxology knows what their doing. If anything, I think they're the dumbest businessmen I've ever seen. Annoucement, retraction, annoucement, retraction...teaser, silence, annoucement, blah blah blah. If you want something to worry about, worry about these guys getting their frikkin' act together. They've done nothing but piss me off. I haven't been to their site for over a month. The only product they seem to be capable of making is paranoid delutionals out of what used to be normal 'wavers.

If they don't create either A. a Time-Traveling contraption or B. a Teleportation device, count me out. The age of overhyping non-existant products is over for me.

Valan,
Well written (all).

To whomever,
Just in case their are some that don't know. There are actually more than 4 programmers in the US. And I'm pretty certain other countries have programmers too.

NewTek,
Do you guys know that you're the only ones that allow this kind of rambling crap-brained phblah in your forums?

By Steve White (Hrgiger) (65.24.112.98) on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 11:17 pm:

Arthur,

Your friends down't know jack. I don't care how smart you think they are or how often you meet them for brunch for Triskets and tea and whatever... Nobody knows what's going on yet, and those who do know, aren't saying anything. There is no reason to think at this point that Newtek is in trouble in the least. I've seen more positive things from Newtek in the past year, then I've seen in the whole time I've been a customer. So there's no point in debating it since nobody who's talking knows jack.
You know what? You're right. I don't have to read this post. But when I keep seeing it at the top of the list since people such as yourself keep bumping it to the top, I think, Oh, maybe there is something worth reading here. That and actual useful things keep getting bumped down and for what? This pessamistic, speculative, conspiracy theroy bull$hit? And I post because I'm begging for the love of all things holy, to let this thread die.
You still really haven't stated a valid reason for you to bring all this up? You say because LW is suffering bad publicity because of perception. What do you care? Are you making money each time a new unit of LW is sold? If Newtek feels that this is hurting them, then maybe they would alter their tactics. You've pointed out your opinion. A few times. I'm sure they've heard it. I'm sure that Arthur Argote will be the talk of the next board meeting at Newtek. The only thing I see hurting LW at this point is people such as yourself who's trying to cast doubt on the future of NT.

By Paul Andrews (Pauland) (62.253.64.4) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 06:35 am:

Newtek/Lightewave/Aura are getting more exposure than ever here in the UK at least - mostly down to loads of material appearing in 3D World and other UK Mags. 7.5 is a great program, so why do people still want to keep flogging a dead horse about Newteks future? If people aren't happy switch to something else. I like LW and am more than happy with it for the forseeable future. Maybe Arthur has some great constructive comment hiding up his sleeve somewhere.

By John DeFronzo (Johnd) (172.174.131.23) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 08:12 am:

My God,
This thread reminds me of the media trying to pressure President Bush into spilling the beans on an attack stategy on Iraq.

By Emmanuel Henne (Emmanuel) (145.254.224.207) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 10:00 am:

>>incidently, today I met for brunch a freind i havn't seen for close to six months. We were talking about our jobs, and then regarding 3D. When I mentioned that I was using my time off to catch up 7.5, her first comment was "wow, lightwave, those guys don't look like they are doing too well". Is passing this information on in these forums whining? As per Valen's comments, he finds such a discussion "not very helpful" to the community here. Steve, does this read to you as some attempt by me to "prove that I am right"? Or that i'm looking for favors from NT as your post so immaturely suggest.<<

Have I already told You folks ?
Recently, I was helping an old lady crossing the road, I didn't know her, just came along and tried to be helpful.
She thanked me, asked my name and what I was doing, I replied studying art and working as a modeler/texture artist and she said "Oh my god, I hope You don't work with *LIGHTWAVE3D*, these guys are going down the drain anytime soon, son!"

And while I had this puzzled look in my face and this "Twilight Zone" theme in my ear, the old lady seemed to dissolve right there in front of my eyes.

Then I woke up and realized it was just a nightmare.

Got the message ?

Later,
Emmanuel

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.16.201) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 12:41 pm:

Brad,

Funny note on the hash minutes. Yes, my friends and I constantly worry about this business as they know people who've been out of work for a year. We also concern ourselves or runaway productions, software training, and unfair business practices. I'll list it here if you really want to know.

I never said what I, or my friends said, is godspel. READ WHAT I SAID:

"My friend was/is/was/is a lightwave user: he's concentrating on houdini at work right now. He has nothing to gain by saying this. Yet someone/something led him to this conclusion. He's not alone, either."

Like I said, something led him to this conclusion... did he talk to a disgruntled programmer? Wass it the Luxology article? Another Forum? I don't know. My point isn't the source of the information, as we know its inaccurate. My point is that the PERCEPTION OF THIS IS OUT THERE!!! Facts and perception are two different things, AND MY WHOLE POINT TO NT WAS TO CHANGE THE PERCEPTION OF LW/NT OUT THERE. where is the mortal sin in that, Brad. How is it a conpsiracey, if I'm just reporting what I hear out there.

Your point regading Luxology's rudderless direction was echoed by me in the original Luxology thread, so again, I ask, what is your point...

Same goes to steve white. Since when was this an issue of how much do my friends know. Since when was this a pissing contest of who knows more. All I am doing is reporting what I hear out there. Period. Perhaps NT is interested in changing that perception, perhaps they are not. Perhaps they are not ready at this time. Nonetheless, what is the sin in bringing this up here?

This thread has been reduced from a sharing of information and ideas, to a bunch of jokers that get fresh because I said something less than popular about the home team.

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.4) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 04:08 pm:

Hey, Arthur, the "guard dogs" have surrounded you. They say your comments are whining. They say you are making up conspiracy theories. They say this thread is boring.

What they really mean is that they are very interested in this thread (that's why they keep reading it and posting new messages) but they also find it very threatening. The guard dogs rush in barking in an attempt to drown out your comments.

OK then. Who will be the next one to start barking?

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.16.201) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 06:03 pm:

Ha! Beam! you are too funny!! Don't know why it would be threatening, though....

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.4) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 07:14 pm:

It's quite amazing how many people try to shut down all discussion of Luxology. Hey, it doesn't have to be a doomsday scenario which ever way it turns out. Company executives may feel threatened but users need not.

Nobody is abandoning the development of Lightwave. Just the opposite. Now we have 2 companies that want to develop it, and are fighting over who will. My loyalty is with Lightwave, rather than any particular company.

If Newtek develops Lightwave... good. If Luxology develops Lightwave... good. If people at Luxology are contracted to develop Lightwave for Newtek... good.

But don't call the discussion a conspiracy theory. Let me remind you of what Brad Peebler from Luxology said:

"Luxology will be the author and NewTek maintains the rights to be the publisher. Luxology is essentially an intellectual property holding company in that regard."

Newtek believes that Luxology has no right to hold the intellectual property to Lightwave, as is evident from this quote from Chuck Baker:

"NewTek is not merely the publisher; Lightwave 3D is exclusively NewTek's product and is developed by NewTek and at NewTek's sole direction. This has always been the fact of the matter. NewTek does have contracts with Allen Hastings and with Stuart Ferguson, and those contracts remain in place. NewTek has never had a relationship of any sort with Luxology and does not intend to."

Now you get the gist of this dispute. Everyone wants to develop Lightwave! Neither party is suggesting that nobody will develop Lightwave. It's better to be involved with software (ie Lightwave) that people fight to be part of, than other software (ie Electric Image) where there is doubt over where the money will come from to develop it.

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (66.69.70.123) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 07:15 pm:

Folks, whatever comments you want to make about NewTek are welcome. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks on each other.

By brad gordon (Anim8r) (68.84.8.9) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 08:35 pm:

OK, you guys win. Posting things like speculation and rumors from "friends" is a great argument on what should be a fact-based discussion (which have already been mentioned--the facts that is--time and time and time again.) So I guess this isn't rumor?:

" So we were talking about our job situatiuon and my other friend mentioned he was still using LW 5.6 but all he was doing was stills. Then the issues of upgrades came in and how much "farther" these programs had to go. then my "bomb dropping" friend mentioned how all development on LW has stopped..."

((basis for fact?))

"...since the programmers left..."

((basis for fact? I was under the understanding that there were dozens of programmers at NT. They ALL left? Really? Who said that?)).

"...Having just endured that long thread here, to hear it re-opened like the red sea from a well repected friend..."

((credentials? aside from being well-respected by you?))

"...who doesn't frequent these forums was such a shock.

I stammered...

I mentioned that I heard of Luxology, inquired to NT about it. My friend said that Allen and Stuart got tired of being treated poorly and decided to do their own thing..."

((really, treated poorly? your "friend" is a drinking buddy with these two? based on fact?))

"... again so matter-of-factly ((odd choice of words)). I stammered again... saying that when I inquired about Luxology that I was told that they were contractually obligated. My friend kinda shook his head with a mixtue of saddness and "yeah, right". "

((well-respected "friend" of yours obviously getting in another unsubstanitiated, baseless jibe...))

and so on...

Neither of you two know what you're talking about. I haven't seen anything from Allen or Stuart, have you or your "friend"? I haven't read the contracts, have you? The reason we post satirical responses is simple. This stuff is hilarious. Not a guard dog mentality, just a "ignore-the-speculation-and-rumors,-just-wait-for-FACTUAL-information" mentality presented to the new 'wavers coming to these forums and thinking you guys are preaching gospel.

You can't even come up with anything new. These are just your 'favorite' rumors/speculations from previous threads being repackaged and re-typed, repackaged and re-typed, repackaged and re-typed...

So yeah, if you keep posting speculation and rumors about people, and a business that I respect, I'll keep asking the same thing.
Facts?

By Steve White (Hrgiger) (65.24.112.98) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 08:45 pm:

Beam,

It is whining. Arthur keeps posting, my friend thinks this, my friend thinks that... If his point was to alert peole to people's perception of LW's future, he's done that, more then a few times. He says "all I'm doing is reporting what I've heard." Thank you Arthur. Duly noted. And I don't think Beam, that saying that Luxology and Newtek are fighting over who develops lightwave seems accurate. At least if you're talking (Arthur's) public perception wise. The perception I have is that Newtek will be the sole author of Lightwave and Brad and Stu may just be washing their hands of Lightwave once their obligation to their contracts have ended. The other idea is that Luxology is developing a product that will revolutionize the 3D industry. None of these things necessarily indicate the demise of Lightwave. We don't even know what their product might be, it might just be something that enhances LW and not compete with it. And even if it does compete with LW, it's just another 3D app. There are dozens of others. Nothing new there.

Arthur,

I never said anything about a pissing contest about how much your friends know. They may be right, they may be wrong, but the point is, they don't know. So there's no reason to speculate. Chuck says that development with LW is continuing forward, they're doing a lot with the website with new tutorials and a contest, and right now, that's good enough for me.

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.16.201) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 09:19 pm:

Brad, where did I state these were facts? Copy and pasted that for me.

MY whole point was the perception of NT/LW out there. people's perception may not have completely factual sources. My old boss didn't know what he was talking about. But he had the money. His PERCEPTION of LW was that it was lowend. Doesn't matter if he has factual knowledge or not. he has the money. this is my whole point: change the perception that this Luxology thing may have left in people's mind: that the LW programmers left to start their own company.

Incidently, if you go by Luxology's "facts", they are inaccurate...

Well, Steve, you're the first poster here to at least correctly ackowledge my point, albiet sarcastically. Its doesn't matter what my friends or other people know. or for that matter what you know, steve. If they "feel" that way, then i say there is a problem. All this bellyaching that this thread has gone too long, Yet, steve, you post arguments that don't even have any relevance to my point, at least not until your last post, though it was pointless..

By zeroside (Zeroside) (210.117.67.219) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 09:46 pm:

At all, do you come out newly?
Is unrelated even if two is lover relation.
If good version appears, .. ^^;;;

By brad gordon (Anim8r) (68.84.8.9) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 10:20 pm:

Arthur,
HellOOoo?
That's my point ExAcTlY.
The thing is, YOU have to KEEP posting the SAME speculations, rumors (and now "perceptions?"--like giving it another name changes anything) over and over and over. It's all been said before over and over and over...
So what is your point in repeating/retyping it over and over and over and...?

What do you think? Newtek is going to devise some method of keeping people from rumor mongering/speculating? Rumor-mongers will always exist. They just can't stand not having all the facts, so hey, they make up their own versions of reality through speculation. But, that's life and I don't mind that so much. I just don't get the rediculous amount of repetition.

"Hey I heard such and such."

"Yeah, I heard the exact same thing."

"Yeah, and what about this exact same quote?"

"I know, and what do you think about this exact same way of saying the same thing?"

"Yeah, and maybe other people didn't read these overly repeated rumors 20 times before so I'll post it here too."

I mean, what the heck is the motivation? I find my kid annoying when he say's "hey dad? hey day? hey dad? hey dad...?"

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:47 pm:

You have an obligation to answer your kid when he says "hey Dad". You don't have an obligation to keep coming back to this thread and adding more messages to it.

Arthur admitted he was chatting to a friend over a beer. That qualifies his source as being non-authoritive. Everyone realizes this. No need to howl or shout him down.

Even though Newtek is not happy with Luxology's statements, these statements are actually the most reassuring thing in this saga.

Luxology stated that:
*There are more programmers than ever working on LW3D
*Luxology has stable funding
*The future of Lightwave never looked better

I only hear positive comments coming from Luxology. They speak with such passion it's infective. It's these comments that make me think that all will be OK. Not only OK, but they make me think that LW3d will conquer the 3D industry. The Luxology people are so passionate about LW3d I don't believe they will stop working on it, even if contracts and legal stuff still has to be worked out.

By Adam Jeffries (Zithen) (24.205.79.146) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:25 am:

I must agree that Luxology's statements resonate with much passion and excitement for Lightwave. That passion is infectious. More so than the literal truths. However, those passionate statements evidently aren't as accurate as the literal truths...which is a problem. Now all we need is passionate, accurate statements and then we'll be fine.

By the way...is it really necessary to shoot people down, just because they don't agree with what you say?

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.16.201) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:47 am:

Brad, the only thing you acheived in this thread is to be rude. nothing else. It appears that your mock thread posted under "not another rumor" hasn't provided enough of an outlet for your hostilities. I've stated my points pretty much once with NT. I've reposted here because I was repeatedly replied by posters misrepresenting my post, if not just plain misquoting. I stated my concern regarding the opinion of LW and NT. You claim I was stating facts. And, on top of it all, you're rude. For no reason. And besides, who are you to say what is to be posted and how often? Do you see me policing your posts on other threads? Why don't you give it a rest already?

Valen, you were so quick to mete out judgement on whats considered constructive and beneficial to this community. Where are your watch dogs now?

By Anthony Fransella (Antsin3d) (67.8.24.236) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:50 am:

I'd just like to comment that I didn't read more than a couple of the above posts. Less talk, more work = more play.

By brad gordon (Anim8r) (68.84.8.9) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 01:45 am:

Beam,
I know I have to answer my son (no-brainer), but he also needs to learn not to interupt. It was just an example. An example ALL parents can relate to. And no I'm not telling Andrew to not interupt.

I am really glad that you're taking a positive note on the topic. This is certainly a far cry from your earlier posts. So that's cool. But, I'm more than content to just wait and see.

Andrew,
You're right. I did cross the line with some of my posts and I apologize for that. (I'll try not to be too much of a wise ass in this post.) But I was simply stating my frustration with seeing the same unsubstantiated posts being incessantly repeated.
Saying things like, "I ate lunch with a well-respected 3D guy who thinks the end of LW is near." doesn't serve any purpose except to make people think. "Hey, LW is going away." or "I read where someone got inside information, NT is close to bankrupcy." That's what happens with rumor mongering. They just grow.
So I just don't understand your motivation. No company can stop people from speculating. That's human nature. But being a proponent of these things under the "guise" of "helping" doesn't really make sense to me. But hey, different minds.
So, if you feel it necessary to tell us all about your friend's (or other people's) opinions/speculations/theories of the "doom of lightwave". Feel free. Feel free to repost in this and other threads. I don't understand the reasoning but, whatever. Free country and all.
I cave. You win. I have no more to say on the subject. No matter what I (or those that think NT is going to come out on top as usual) say or have said won't change these kinds of posts.

NewTek doesn't seem to mind you doing it, so who am I?

Oh, and Valen (probably the more mature of us all) must of gotten bored of the same frustration I'm feeling.

By Jim Williams (Hiraghm) (65.70.121.97) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:34 pm:

So long as you insist upon calling me "Jim", Arthur, I'll presume to use your given name, as well.

What is there to think about? So you got emails from people I don't know, and more to the point, who don't know me, that were evidently derogatory and presumably defamatory?

Again, check a mirror before calling another "nuts". Then again, it being your mirror it's probably a liberal mirror, and therefore provides a distorted reflection of the world.

You may not realise it, but it appears from an admittedly brief scan of the thread that your method of conveying your arguments doesn't contribute to a friendly discourse. Again, you seem to be condemning others for behaving in like manner to yourself.

Comparing Valen to "that nut Jim" is not a friendly or even cogent way to argue a point.

By Michael Borjon (Michaelborjon) (66.75.217.94) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 01:19 pm:

Please don�t take this the wrong way;

shut the hell up, all of you and get back to work.

You guys have more productive things to do than spanking each other about the goings-on of NewTek. Lightwave kicks serious, and I do mean serious ass. Go ahead check the other apps out for yourself. The grass always looks greener on the other side.

The cool thing about animation is, if you do it right, the last thing the audience asks is�what 3D app did you use.

It�s true, with the exception of those in the biz, for example, no one who watched Monsters Inc. or Shrek cared about what application was used.

They were just blown away by the story and the visual treatment, which by the way, can be reproduced practically on any package. There are a number of shorts out there which were and are being created every day by guys and gals like you and I.

That�s what it�s all about.

Now get out there and imagine.

By Paul Lieger (Thatsit) (172.166.146.216) on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 05:28 pm:

Why don't you all shut the f$ck up!

By Richard Stallsmith (Lwaddict) (63.125.144.5) on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 09:32 am:

This thread is exactly what happens when we spend too much of our time being the guinea-pig, beta-testing, end-users of modern day.

If you just bought the software and actually were able to use it...odds are, you may have never needed to come to the forum looking for the fixes.

But...
since none of this software, or even the Toaster hardware, actually does what it says on first install...we end up here.
And worstly, we end up more concerned about the fate of the company, due to our minutes, hours, and even days of being stuck in here waiting for some absolution to our woes.

Who cares if the company goes down? Why? If the company that made your PC went down, life goes on right? New PC from other company yah?

Newtek goes...there will be others.

But I certainly do not believe that they're going anywhere anytime soon. Some of the management may be going somewhere. LOL.

By Jon Osgood (Fely) (146.244.55.153) on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:26 am:

Huh? Why was this thread dug up out of purgatory? Chuck Baker has made this issue quite clear.

"And worstly, we end up more concerned about the fate of the company, due to our minutes, hours, and even days of being stuck in here waiting for some absolution to our woes. "

Huh? Woes? Wha? I come here to check out the gallery and post some ramblings for fun...

By richard hagen (Beverins) (148.4.33.125) on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 12:30 pm:

Well, I find it curious that luxology.com has NO LINKS to Newtek anywhere that I can find on their site (can you point one out?)

Seeing as how newtek is still the publisher, publishing updates, PDFs, patches, etc... webdesigners should NEVER assume people just type in lightwave3d.com and bingo... so why cannot I find one in their LINKS section? It's not oversight on their part, its intentional - the rest of their site is immaculate.

By Leslie Jon-Pierre Lloyd (Nicodemus) (206.214.1.64) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 07:54 pm:

Simple questions to clear up this really old beaten to death discussion.

Yes or no.....Are newtek and luxology friends?

Yes or no.........Are they both involved in any way in making lightwave?

We don't need the details of the relationship,.......... we just wonder if there is a relationship....yes or no?

L

By Herv� Steff (Hervé) (212.76.255.97) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:27 am:

Sexual, just sexual....

(only kidding....)

By Jon Osgood (Fely) (66.63.132.108) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 03:29 am:

Quote from Chuck about Luxology:

Our contractual relationships with Allen Hastings and Stuart Ferguson for the continued development of NewTek's LightWave 3D remain in place and development is ongoing.

By Jason Morris (Manfriday) (131.225.157.107) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:57 am:

I think Luxology was formed for the sole pupose for creating message board threads that just wont go away.

;)

jason

By Donald S. (Fourd) (208.10.65.132) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:14 pm:

Shut up already.

By Larry Shultz "SplineGod" (Larrys) (209.179.226.66) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 05:30 pm:

Chuck has said this:
"NewTek is the sole developer and marketer of LightWave 3D and any derivative products" and this: "Our contractual relationships with Allen Hastings and Stuart Ferguson for the continued development of NewTek's LightWave 3D remain in place and development is ongoing"
Chuck has also stated at other times (unless Im mistaken) that there is no relationship with Luxology and Newtek. IF you can interpret the words SOLE DEVELOPER as somehow co-developing Lightwave with them and being friendly with them....

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 06:04 pm:

You are correct, Larry. NewTek has direct contractual relationships with Messrs. Hastings and Ferguson, and no relationship with Luxology.

By Leslie Jon-Pierre Lloyd (Nicodemus) (209.244.209.45) on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:29 pm:

Okay....can we drop these threads now.

By Jessica Vitale (Jvitale) (209.179.136.23) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 01:54 am:

Why can't NewTek and Luxology just kiss and make up and work together somehow....I know, I know....Wishful thinking on my part...

By arthur argote (Archiea) (66.32.133.156) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 12:12 pm:

Why don't you ask that question this Saturday....oh right, you can't... ;D

By Jessica Vitale (Jvitale) (209.179.128.189) on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 11:08 pm:

His lips are sealed and I promised I wouldn't ask

By Will Silver (Lw_Will) (66.27.96.61) on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 03:41 am:

That would be telling...

Will aka No. 6

By Berislav Kovacic (Mav3rick) (195.29.131.62) on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:53 am:

burp...

look this topic is on top of forum again hahahah

cheers
take care guys

By Paolo Zambrini (Pavlov) (80.116.157.204) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 01:09 pm:

Hi all,
i've been lurking this thread from the beginning; i've nothing to add, maybe too much has already been said from user's part. What has not been said, otherwise, is a clear statement about next LW generation. I dont matter who, why, where and how and with how many cows, i just matter about 2 things as most users do, i think.
Now, assuming there will be a next LW generation, just one thing remains: WHEN.
All other 3D soft has gone under major updates that brought them a step ahead LW in many fields. Who works with LW does need to have at least some coordinates about this to plan their professional future.
I understand some caution is overdue here. L6 was released way before it was production-ready because the thread about this was so huge that Newtek simply had to do that. Let's avoid this, now, but for sure you know an aproximative time of release: early 2004, late 2008 or similiar.
Again, you surely know if some patches are on the way, before L8 is released. This is another thing i consider to be said to us final users, unless you give a very valid reason to keep this under silence.

Bye and keep the good work
Paolo Zambrini

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (203.109.241.109) on Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 04:35 pm:

The old thread has been dredged up once again! It had to happen! Some time ago I was tempted to post a thread called "Luxology part 3" just so the old one didn't have to be reawakened.

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