By jin choung (Jin) (67.193.227.73) on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 11:27 pm:

howdy fellows,

for those of you guys talking about creating smartskin plugins (lernie and the gang....), have you guys seen the smartskin tutorial in the newtek tuts section?

it's a video so it maybe a somewhat slow dl for all you 56kers (i'm one) but it's very very well thought out and it seems to work just like hash.

though it is complex as all heck! a long process where you can screw up at any point and it seems like the task of a TD and not a joe blow animator.

but doable nonetheless.

just wondering if you guys have seen it and what you thought.

it may be worth it to just create a macro that will automate his process....

jin

By Michael Green (Dodgy) (195.92.67.74) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 11:00 am:

I'm looking at making a multiple jointmorph plugin that should make this sort of stuff easier....Early days yet though

By Paul Goodrich (Pdg) (66.114.244.13) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 02:54 pm:

What format is the video in? I tried to download it and after MUCH time (I'm on a dial up here) I ended up with no file. I'm on a Mac here, is this another one of these Windows media file stupidity issues again? or is there something that I need to change on my end?
Paul Goodrich

By Colin Partridge (Soundtech) (62.30.112.3) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 03:21 pm:

The smartskin.mov plays ok here on Mac OS 9.2 with QT5. It appears to have been encoded with something called "On2 VP3 video" which I seem to have an extension for, I've no idea if this is a standard QT extension or something I've picked up on my travels.

By Glen Hurd (Glenh) (141.158.234.159) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

ON2's VP3 codec for Quicktime is competitive with Sorenson's 3 codec, and beats it if both are done on a single pass render. Check out http://www.vp3.com/getvp3/index.shtml for the needed download.

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 05:04 pm:

Mac users get shafted, AGAIN! There is absolutely no reason for Newtek to use proprietary codecs.

Videos should be available in Quicktime, and in one of the standard codecs that comes with Quicktime. Then anyone on any computer platform can access the video.

Did anyone test this? Who took it upon him or herself to use some obscure codec, and then not even put a note up on the download site to let users know they'll have to download some extra proprietary software?

As there seems not to be anyone in the Newtek building who is Mac savvy, let me offer this advice. In future, use either Sorenson3 codec, or MPEG-4. Sorenson3 is compatible with Quicktime5 and Quicktime6 for Mac and Windows. MPEG-4 has better compression rates, and is compatible with Quicktime6 (Mac & Windows) and new versions of RealPlayer.

There is no doubt that whoever is responsible for compressing video for use on Newtek's website does not know what they are doing. Please, Newtek, send them off for a lesson in video compression before they cause more frustration to customers.

By Gabe DeLang (Gabe) (216.26.74.36) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 05:19 pm:

Michael,
Yes, please make a plugin that simplifies the process. And one that will let the morphs work with IK. I may be mistaken but I think I read in another thread that the Smartskin tutorial method only works with hand keyed bones, no IK. I haven't been able to test that statement yet myself because for some reason I can't seem to figure out how to do the tutorial correctly. Anyway, please let us know when you finish the plug and how much you'd like for it. I'm so sick of fighting with joint deformations!!

By Chris Moschella (Chris_M) (68.100.91.245) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 06:04 pm:

Beam, what is the problem, i had no problems at all, and all i have are the codecs that came with qt5, no problems for me here

By Eric Heupel (Eheupel) (141.156.219.12) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 06:22 pm:

Beam-
No one's getting shafted- it's encoded in one of the default QT5/6 methods. Both of those are hmmmm....Apple Products (QT5/QT6) ON2's VP3 format is also great quality without the inherent problems of MPEG4 and usually beats Sorenson, especially for animation uses. Seems to me the folks encoding video at Newtek are pretty much on the ball. So why blame Newtek ? I mean if anyone is going to have a hard time it's the PC users (not all but see the LW-DISC thread over at Yahoo for more info) who can't get QT to load properly on their system, or play reliably with an OS newer than NT4.

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 06:44 pm:

Eric: As a Windows user, do you really think it's helpful to say that there's no problem for Mac users?

While you may not care, if Newtek gives proper consideration to Mac users it is in the interest of all Lightwave users. Inclusion of the Mac platform increases overall Lightwave sales. If Mac users desert Lightwave it is not good for Windows LW users.

Mac users get shafted because they are continually denied easy access to Newtek content. Windows users never have to put up with this kind of thing from Newtek.

Newtek's Smartskin tutorial will not play in in the standard QT6. Period.

It is possible to download extra software and install it to enable playback of the tutorial in the older QT5. Some people may have unwittingly downloaded this codec automatically without knowing it. However, Quicktime6, as it comes from Apple, does not include this codec.

The obscure VP3 codec is not officially certified for QT6 by ON2. In addition, the audio codec used is not the most efficient one to choose for voice.

It is not much to ask that content on Newtek's site be available in a standard Quicktime format that can be played on an unmodified latest-version Quicktime player. This is small request and a reasonable request.

By Larry Shultz "SplineGod" (Larrys) (216.244.14.221) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 07:48 pm:

There are many ways to get a smartskin type effect...some easier and some harder. Hopefully when I have some time Ill post an example or two.

By Eric Heupel (Eheupel) () on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 08:55 pm:

Beam- No offense intended. My understanding, from checking the quicktime pages, was wrong, you're point is obviously valid.

By jin choung (Jin) (63.10.215.140) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 09:18 pm:

jhc beam tracer!

i downloaded the .MOV and that codec is NOT BUILT INTO WINDOWS EITHER!!!!

i had to download it. hear that? i DOWNLOADED IT WHEN IT PROMPTED ME TO!

it took all of 40seconds on a 56k connection!

'not certified blah blah blah' BOOO FRICKIN HOO MAN!

just download the frickin' codec and shut the hell up! what is you major malfunction?!

man, talk about having a mac persecution complex.

ACK!

jin

By Lernie D Ang (Faulknermano) (202.57.90.93) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 09:57 pm:

jin,

i saw the tut, but that idea has been around before that. and it's during those times inclusive to now that i've committed a good deal of my time to furthering this technique mostly through lscript.

my latest advanceements:

1.) RotateByWeightMap (for Modeler) _tries_ to simplify the process of rotating in and out of the position in modeler to create morph maps. actually, "simplify" must be taken to mean "wont give you pivot point headaches". you _will_ screw up your pivot points in the course of your rigging your character for morphs (unless you're some awesome robot). RotateByWeightMap will tag groups of weightmaps into a pivot point so that you can rotate them without worrying which pivot you used etc etc Blah blah... there's more in the docs:

http://thespread.topcities.com/RotateByWeightMap.zip

BTW: the instigator of this lscript and _most_ of the features you find in RotateByWeightMap is by the suggestion / request of Larry Leung. i just executed it.

2.) i've just completed SetDrivenKeyCF (my pet project: the most gratifying script i've made, in addition to being the hardest). but i cant release it because it's not finished incubating. i need to incubate scripts because i like to minimize bugs before i send them out. if anyone is interested in 'beta-testing' this for me, just drop me an email here: faulknermano1@yahoo.com

just so you know, SetDrivenKeyCF is like MorphDriverCF, only that it's _flexible_. think maya's set driven key... (that's the model i used) so yes, you can set up morphs _that work with IK_. anyhow, this is the link to MDCF, in case anyone is interested (but mind you, it's pretty outdated):

http://thespread.topcities.com/MorphDriverCF.zip

btw: what the hell is all this hoopla about codecs...? if you cant view the movie try this (not the movie):

http://thespread.topcities.com/Morph_Tutorial.zip

By william vaughan (Proton) (208.191.122.27) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 10:11 pm:

Beam-

The Smart Skin Tutorial was given to us by a LW user...it was not created in house and we were very happy to recieve the file...There was no intention of leaving anyone out....It's up to the individual contributor as to what format they submit files....We've had several requests for QT movies and we plan to use Mac/PC formats when we have control over it....

NewTek isn't shafting Mac Users...I'm sorry you feel that way...

By jin choung (Jin) (63.17.83.89) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 10:50 pm:

cool cool,

many props (propers?) to mr. larry as well. good luck guys. if this works out to automate this process, this is gonna be GREAT!

jin

By Lernie D Ang (Faulknermano) (202.57.90.93) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 10:59 pm:

yes... larry, when you get the chance, i'd like to see some of yours, too..

By Chris Moschella (Chris_M) (68.100.91.245) on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 11:39 pm:

mac persecution complex LOL

seriously, arent we media people... we are supposed to be using some of the most complex software on the planet and we can't figure out how to update our player to handle a simple codec?!?

gimme a break, this isnt rocket science...

**QUOTE**Mac users get shafted because they are continually denied easy access to Newtek content. Windows users never have to put up with this kind of thing from Newtek.

Newtek has plenty of movies in DIVX and you don't hear everyone crying about them being in a codec that is not supported by the native MICROSOFT WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER!!! And you know what else? Newtek dares have a movie in their gallery only in quicktime format!! They must really HATE both mac and windows users then! And i am yet to hear a PCer complain about it.

**QUOTE**It is not much to ask that content on Newtek's site be available in a standard Quicktime format that can be played on an unmodified latest-version Quicktime player. This is small request and a reasonable request.

It is not small and it is not reasonable. Everyone, MAC and PC, has to put up with it.

suffice it to say the computing world is slanted towards windows, i dont think anyone would dispute that, but do you really expect to get the same attention when you comprise such a small percentage of the population of computer users? This is business, it comes down to numbers, and on the totem pole, mac is way further down than windows. It is not about hating anyone, it is just business. That aside, i think newtek is way above the mean in the list of good cross platform support, especially in 3D, especially for something which takes such extreme effort to port to a new platform. Newtek is a small company, and a lot of people ask a lot of things from them. They are very much the mom and pop shop in the 3d world. Their competitors have much deeper pockets for marketing, and Newteks PR team does a lot to stretch their available resources. They work extremely hard, and not just for the money, they truely love Lightwave and want to see it prosper. So why dont you stop busting their balls so much, download the codec like the rest of the world, and if you must complain, don't whine, you sound like my niece.

By Userdelta (Userdelta) (64.174.21.43) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 02:41 am:

yep. you cant expect others to do all the work for you :D. sheesh, mac users. hehe just joking!

By Bionic Antboy (Bionicantboy) (216.126.95.11) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 07:46 am:

This still holds up, 8 years after it was written...

http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/inte/inte0022.htm

Do you control the machine, or does the machine control you?

"Gooble Gobble Gooble Gobble, One of us One of us"

Doug

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 10:34 am:

*As I said, VP3 codec is not certified for Quicktime 6

*Quicktime 6 users cannot keep a version of QT5 on their hard drive. The installer won't let them.

*It is in Newtek's control, as these files could have been coverted into a format that Mac users can utilize.

*This is not a platform war. I'm happy for an AVI file to be provided as well as a Quicktime.

*Arrogance is not a virtue.

By Chris Moschella (Chris_M) (12.101.14.2) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 11:00 am:

:**(

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/release.asp?releaseid=35133&area=top&ordinal=7


>>QUOTE<< *arrogance is not a virtue

shouldn't that have been preceded by a 'note to self' !?

By Larry Leung (M_Shady) (143.55.177.22) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 11:04 am:

Man, I kept scratching my head wondering which larry you guys are refering to...haha. I think I know now that the reference is made to Mr.Shultz (splinegod).

Anyways, I noticed that there're a good deal more info regarding this "smartskin" deformation for LW than just Joel Dryer's video in the tut section of this site. I am glad that Lernie finally step up and claims the credit he deserve whether anyone noticed or not. Back in the http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/29109.html?1030953456 there're some other folks that express interest in the Smartskin development. UserDelta had done some great stuff with his female model using the this technique. http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/30348.html?1031458331 Would be nice to see this site or some other site out there that would host all relevant info like scripts, scene/model and tut on this topic or links to these resources. So any users that like to get into it, would have a good place to start, develop and contribute to this idea.

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.3) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 12:09 pm:

>>QUOTE<< "on the totem pole, mac is way further down than windows


as I said.

By Chris Moschella (Chris_M) (12.101.14.2) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 12:27 pm:

and you dispute the fact that there are more PC users than mac users?

By Jim Williams (Hiraghm) (65.70.121.97) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 01:40 pm:

Arrogance is a virtue.

By brad gordon (Anim8r) (12.101.14.2) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 03:06 pm:

PC envy...

By Beam Tracer (Beamtracer) (210.50.30.6) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 07:24 pm:

No, just tutorial envy!

By brad gordon (Anim8r) (68.84.8.9) on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 07:57 pm:

hehehe

The thing is Beam, you mentioned media use as one of the Mac's strengths, saying it could read more types of media, necessary for video editing (and you're probably right--I don't know). And yet here you are saying you can't read a Quicktime (an apple product) movie.

And that somehow, your Apple-made Mac's inability to view an Apple Quicktime Movie (because Apple decided you didn't need the VP3 codec in QT6) is somehow NewTek's fault.

(?) Well, Alrighty then.

By Lernie D Ang (Faulknermano) (210.14.19.51) on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:44 am:

i'm putting this here (too) because i think it's relevant:

i've finished incubating my SetDrivenKeyCF script.

http://thespread.topcities.com/SetDrivenKeyCF.zip

or failing that, you can try:

http://www.geocities.com/lightwavespread/SetDrivenKeyCF.zip

go easy on the server...

oh yea, go and check out:

http://thespread.topcities.com/RotateByWeightMap.zip

and/or

http://www.geocities.com/lightwavespread/RotateByWeightMap.zip

there will be no link to the file in the geocities site.. i had no time to make links.