By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 02:33 pm:

This is a preliminary version of our FAQ entry for using both 6.x and 7.0 on one system. This version is for Windows users. We are still working out the procedures for Mac OSes. (Primary author is J. West - Teksoup)

Running 6.x and 7.0 on the same PC

NewTek's R & D staff has taken great care to make immediate switchover in operation from 6.x software to 7.0 a safe and effective choice. If users do wish to retain 6.x for a time until they become fully comfortable with the new software, they need to be aware that there are quite a few steps to take prior to installing 7.0. If these steps are not taken, neither version of the software will operate correctly and safely, though the most obvious problems will show in 7.0.

First, you will want to shutdown Layout, Modeler and the HUB. Inside your LightWave directory (for this discussion our examples will assume a location of C:\LightWave) create a folder called "Configs".

Once you do that you will need to cut your normal configs from their current location and paste them in the new directory we created, C:\LightWave\Configs.

These are the configs that you will want to cut: lw3.cfg, lwm3.cfg, lwext3.cfg, and lwhub.cfg.


Each Windows OS stores the configs in a different location:

Windows NT:
C:\WINNT\Profiles\(User) typically the user is Administrator.

Windows 2000
C:\Documents and Settings\(User) typically the user is Administrator.

Windows 98
C:\Windows


Then, make shortcuts for Layout and Modeler on your desktop. Right click on the shortcut to Layout and go to properties. In the target area after the "...exe", hit the spacebar and type

-cC:\LightWave\Configs

The whole path should say:

C:\LightWave\Programs\Lightwav.exe -cC:\LightWave\Configs

Repeat this process with the Modeler shortcut.

It is important to test the redirect. Launch Layout and Modeler from the shortcuts, then close them. Go into the folder where your Configuration files used to be before you moved them, and see if new ones have been created. If not, then the redirect is working. If they were recreated, then double check your pathing information in the new shortcuts.

After the configuration redirect for [6] is confirmed as working, install 7.0. If installing to the same drive partition, C:\ for example, make sure to give the folder for L [7] a unique name so that you do not overwrite the 6.x directory. For this example we'll use the folder name, "LightWave7".

Once the install is complete, create a folder in your LightWave7 directory called Configs.

The install will have placed new config files for 7 in the same default locations as you found the config files for LW [6], and the files have the exact same names (see above). Cut those config files from their current location and paste them in the new directory we created C:\LightWave7\Configs.

Next, make shortcuts for version [7] Layout and Modeler on your desktop. Right click on the shortcut to Layout and go to properties. In the target entry box, after the "...exe", hit the spacebar and type:

cC:\LightWave_3D_7.0\Configs

The whole path should say:

C:\LightWave_3D_7.0\Programs\Lightwav.exe -cC:\LightWave_3D_7.0\Configs

Repeat this process with the Modeler shortcut.

You must test the redirects for [7] just as you tested the redirects for [6], to make sure they are working.

We would also recommend that once you know all config files and redirects are working properly for both versions of the software, that you go into the directories where your configuration files are located and copy them to a new directory in another location which you can create called Backup. This way if you ever need to trash and recreate your configuration files you will have a menu structure consistent with the installed version.

By Chris S. (Fez) (24.23.192.203) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 03:53 pm:

"NewTek's R & D staff has taken great care to make immediate switchover in operation from 6.x software to 7.0 a safe and effective choice."

"Great care...". Chuck, I personally do not mind these tweaks to my system. What I do mind is Newtek possibly not owning up to the fact that they screwed up. Please use words like "great care" carefully. You posted this information after Seven shipped. In retrospect you know that the "great care" of the R&D staff was not enough to insure a safe Seven installion on a system with 6.5. Look at the situation (if you want to call it a "situation") from a purely damage-control POV. If you say Newtek took "great care" even when knowing that there were screwups, doesn't that take trust and weight away from the words "great care"? Just my PR opinion, Chuck. Thanks for all the hard work.

p.s. all I am saying is that when a person spills a tray in a crowded cafeteria, it is probably more endearing for the person to blush and say "oops" before he cleans up his splattered condiments and explains to the crowd why he fell and how others can avoid a similar accident.

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 04:57 pm:

Chris, I feel that you've taken my words out of proper context and drawn incorrect conclusions as result. Somehow you managed to do that even after quoting the whole sentence in which they were used.

To state the sentence in question another way, the LightWave development team made every effort to insure that 7.0 was operational and stable to such a level that users can simply retire 6.5 and use 7.0. Simply that, and nothing more. No assertion that there is not in fact some type of problem at hand, as you seem to be saying. In fact, the problem doesn't exist if you do just that - switchover and don't look back.

In point of fact, I and my staff wouldn't be writing a FAQ entry, however worded, if it were not obvious to us and everyone else that a tray smacked down and the ketchup is all over somebody's shoes. In this case the groundwork for users having two versions on a system was all done properly (having the redirect function available), but people do need to be told how to do this and we didn't address it in either the manual or in the installer. The fact that it is a good bet that no one would read the necessary part of the manual or pay attention to it in the readme portion of the installer is no excuse of course....

So here we are writing a FAQ.

Chuck's Dictionary: FAQ: [fak] 1) Ooops. We goofed. 2) Ooops. You goofed. 3) Ooops. That's actually not what that's intended for, you know, and I don't think you want to let a policeman catch you doing that.

By jin choung (Jin) (66.121.61.194) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:12 pm:

holy crap,

hey chuck, well, the installation procedures are what they are and there's nothing that can be done about it now.

but:

the idea of simply retiring existing installations goes COUNTERINTUITIVE with a great many users and because of many issues. especially as it pertains to the demo!

holy cow, does that mean people can mess up their 6.5b if they try to install the demo?

in a future revision, you guys might want to rethink the installation procedures and NOT assume that people will be retiring the previous version.

actually, the upgrade to 6.0 from 5.6c worked out beautifully with no crosstalk.

this should be the ideal for any revs of 7 (ESPECIALLY DEMOS!) and any future releases.

from users i know, the standard upgrade procedures involve keeping the old version for a certain period of time while the new version gets its chops.

pragmatically, bugs and compatability issues are common problems for any upgrade and it just doesn't make sense for production to ditch the previous version all together.

please take note cuz i don't think this is an unimportant matter.

thanks and rock on.

jin

By jin choung (Jin) (66.121.61.194) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 05:16 pm:

p.s.

it may be a good (nay, GREAT) idea to actually have an FAQs section that you guys can post to so that important info like this doesn't get lost in the barrage of messages.

i know that i don't need this info now and dang it if i'm certain i'm never gonna find this when i finally do get to upgrade!

i'm certainly not sensible or far sighted enough to copy it to a local document now!

jin

By Paul Brunson (Lwmusings) (24.20.102.81) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 08:10 pm:

Chill people chill, Chucks not describing the procedure for brain surgery.
Any Lightwave user who knows anything about how Lightwave stores its config files could have seen this coming. Lightwave stores its configs in such a manner that computers with multiple users can easily have seperate config files. This can be a problem because all installed versions of Lightwave will by default place their configs in the same place. The users profile directory. But they have kindly provided a simple way for a us to choose where the configs reside, should the default not be to our liking.
Newtek can't possibly forsee everyone's problems, situations and wants. Much less to please everybody. They're doing the best they can and it was very thoughtful of Chuck to make this post. Don't shoot down someone who is trying to help you! Its common sense.

Thank you Chuck

By jin choung (Jin) (63.28.132.241) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 08:35 pm:

actually,

i for one am not shooting anyone down, just suggesting a better way.

i can't for the life of me figure why they simply don't decide to RENAME the cfg files that each new version references!!!

that's the easiest way!

so you have lwm6.cfg lwm7.cfg etc. there is no reason for a new installation to need to access the older .cfg in the first place.

at least an option should be given on what you want to do - either a fresh install or an upgraded install.

this is how windows handles upgrades and it's not a bad idea.

there's really no need to defend newtek in this. if there can be a better way, why the heck not?

jin

By Craig Townsend (Craigt) (12.93.208.52) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 09:08 pm:

Jin, that's exactly what I was saying about a week ago- it seems like such an easy concept and would avoid any headaches. One thing that is also being routinely ignored is the issue of Screamernet config files, Lightnet files, etc. that have to also be altered if the location of any config files are changed. Also the Hub, at least on my system, is always in the default location and a Hub.cfg file stored with the other config files is totally ignored. No, not a big issue but the Hub no longer works at all when I run the L7 demo but at least it still does with LW6.5b which is the important thing.

Craig

By Paul Brunson (Lwmusings) (24.20.102.81) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 09:09 pm:

But who is to decide which way is the best? Best for you does not necessarily translate to being best for others.

By jin choung (Jin) (63.28.132.241) on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 10:05 pm:

OF COURSE BEST FOR ME MEANS BEST FOR EVERYBODY!!!

just kidding.

no of course what is best for me does not translate into best for everybody.

however, there CAN be such a thing as OBJECTIVELY BETTER!

let's not lounge around in subjective nit picking. certain methods are better than others. period.

read what i have written and consider it.

if the DEFAULT config files are named differently for lw7 than lw6, AND if there is an OPTION during installation to upgrade the lw6 config files then no one is strong armed toward one technique or another.

however, there is an important distinction that the choice is given the user.

right now, newtek made an assumption and that turned out to be generally disagreeable to the user base.

also, it would potentially pooch screw any 6.5b user who tries to install the demo unless they have read this faq first.

better is better. not to who. better in fact, in reality, objectively.

jin

p.s. good call craig. i didn't get to siggraph and this issue just caught my attention recently. not a big deal but a potential user headache that can and should be remedied without fuss.

By Andres R. (Andres) (65.5.181.106) on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 01:50 am:

I'll I have to say is that installing the LW 7 demo made so that I can't use LW at all! I can't even reinstall LW 6 anymore! I've written the tech support a few times and have yet to hear back from anyone. At least a 'we'll get to you as soon as we can' would be nice. But I think Newtek needs to handle damage control a little better. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all of Newteks products, I ordered LW 7 a few days ago, even after having all these problems. I have faith in Newtek, but I'm not afraid to openly criticize them for their blunder, as some are. In order for a relationship to grow (ie. Newtek and their loyal customers), a more open and honest dialogue should be able to take place without all of the 'Newtek can do no wrong' individuals jumping on the backs of the people who just want Newtek to be the best it can possible be. Please everyone, don't get too upset, all of our goals remain the same. So in the future, just try to keep a more open mind, while being mindful of the Darkside. Peace out Baby.

By Randy Perkins (Ran205) (24.13.42.31) on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 02:53 am:

Has anyone had major problems installing the upgrade from 6.5b to 7.0? I haven't received my upgrade yet. I'm just wondering what I can expect.

By Chris S. (Fez) (24.23.192.203) on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 04:18 am:

Oops! I apologize, Chuck. Rereading your post I see that I did indeed take "great care" out of context. Reading it the way I did (the wrong way!), it just seemed somehow inappropriate to me to claim that Newtek took "great care" a sentence before informing customers of the LW 7/6.5 conflicts and how to avoid them.
Anyway, I hope you can see why I made the mistake, where I was coming from and that I was not trying to “shoot down” you or Newtek. I was just posting an opinion/advice that I now think would have been more appropriately sent to your private mailbox. See ya later Chuck. I’m gonna go see if I can’t get these ketchup stains out of my sneakers.

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 08:26 am:

Andres, I'll check to see who has your email and have them get in touch with you. Did you send it to tech@newtek.com?

I also have to say I've done some thinking about the problem as you describe it, and I cannot for the life of me duplicate anything similar nor figure out why such a thing should happen, outside of the OS or file system being thoroughly corrupted, or a virus of some sort being in charge of the system. If I recall correctly you've posted a thread on this on the forum - I'll switch over to that thread to discuss further.

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 08:31 am:

Hi, Chris! don't sweat it - if I didn't suffer from terminal political correctness and purple prose disease phrases like that wouldn't sneak into my writing anyway...

By Chuck Baker (Cbaker) (207.235.86.2) on Thursday, August 23, 2001 - 08:37 am:

Hi, Jin! Our regularly scheduled FAQ will return shortly...

Just has not been re-added in the current website overhaul. We are thinking of setting up a section to which only the tech staff can post for prelim versions of FAQs, and for the illustrated FAQ entries, as the new system the web team has selected for FAQs still does not give us the option of creating fully illustrated entries.