Reset pivot by ChrisOlsen

[Zach]

I was watching this video tutorial by ChrisOlsen from newteks tutorial contest, and he was resetting the rotation pivot point of skelegons that were brought into Layout from Modeler.

The rotation of the bones were slightly tilted on the bank, and it was represented that way in the rotation handles. Then he did this thing (must have been attached to a keystroke) and said "reset pivot" then the bank, heading and pitch were all uniformly mirroring the corresponding world coordinates.

how did he do that?

[Sam_Horton]

In the dropdown menu for pivot there is an option called "record pivot rotation" this zeros out the rotation values while maintaining the actual rotation.

[MysteryMonkey]

In the dropdown menu for pivot there is an option called "record pivot rotation" this zeros out the rotation values while maintaining the actual rotation.

Sam - I want to revive this old topic with a new question. I don't know if this is possibly a Mac question or just a general question about using LightWave. I'm using v9 on a MacBook Pro.

What is the "normal" procedure when setting the HPB (Heading, Pitch & Bank) to 0,0,0 (+P) to a Bone that has already been made Active (R) ? When I set the HPB to an active bone it seems to rip the geometry off of the skeleton after the layout file has been closed and reopened. What is the normal process? I though setting the HPB to 0,0,0 by using +P wouldn't affect the surround geometry of an Active Bone. Am I wrong with how this is supposed to work or is this a known issue with v9?

If a Bone is Active must the bone first be made in-Active, then set the HPB to 0,0,0 and then make the Bone Active again?

Thanks

[Dodgy]

If you reset pivot on bones, you should rest the bone again afterwards as it'll still use the old rest rotation which won't match the new 'base' rotation.

[Sam_Horton]

Right on the money Dodgy!

Another common practice is to make a keyframe somewhere out of your animation range that has all of the bones in their default pose so you can quickly get back to square one if things go awry. I even go so far as to save a separate scene file once I get the bones set up properly.

[MysteryMonkey]

. . . . make a keyframe somewhere out of your animation range that has all of the bones in their default pose so you can quickly get back to square one if things go awry. . . .

That is a great tip. I had been doing the bone setup work at frame "0" but it makes sense to set up a "-1" frame.

Thanks to you and all the others responding.

[Surrealist.]

Just in case this is not clear, the minus frame should be a back up. You set your bones at frame 0, do any test posing at +0 frames and your rest pose is at 0. Once you have your basic set up complete create a key for all frames at minus 0. This way at any point you accidently move something at 0 or start a pose there and can't get back or anything goes awry you have your back up rest positions - in addition to - your rest pos at 0. If you don't have keys at both frames seting up a minus frame is pointless.

[MysteryMonkey]

. . . . Once you have your basic set up complete create a key for all frames at minus 0. . . .

I think I get the whole rest at 0 but now I want to clarify the above statement. If I understand you correctly you are saying that for every positive key frame I make I should also have a minus key frame as a backup? If I'm doing a 32 frame walk cycle and I key frame at 0,8,16,24,32 I should also make duplicate key frames at -8,-16,-24,-32? This is done so if I really bugger up any of my positive key frames I can go back to its minus duplicate and use that to reset the screwed up positive frame? Sound good as long as one remembers to always to make the minus duplicate :hey:

[Sam_Horton]

I think he's saying that if every bone is not keyed first at frame 0 then anything you do at frame -1 will be useless, as your only pose for the entire timeline will be at frame -1. (Let me know if this isn't what you meant)

I think it's also extremely important to set the in/out points for the timeline to protect your default pose frame. I have accidentally auto keyed over my default pose many times and it gets frustrating. So if the default is at frame -1, then I make sure the timeline's in-point is set to 0.

Since most of the animation I do is for games, I'm used to saving out a separate scene for each animation sequence. For characters, I use frame -1 as the old fashioned davinci-style pose. Frame 0 would begin the animation sequence (walk/run/jump cycle etc...)

This is just my workflow, and I'm sure there are better ones out there.

[Surrealist.]

Yeah the above will work. What I meant was that usually what people do is have the rest pose at 0. If that is the only rest pose then you can mess it up by accintently changing something while at 0. If you also have a back up at a minus frame you can go back and recapture it.

My thought was that if you ONLY have a minus frame rest pos, then your 0 has nothing so there is no back up. But as above if your slider is set to 0 you'll not likely accindently mess it up. Unless you scroll the timeline one tired night with the alt key. That could easily move it to minus 1 unnoticed.

My practice is to have a pose at 0 and a back up at - 10. This is far enough away for minor scroll error.

Just a minor issue really but that's what I do. My first pose would be a frame 1. So my rest pose is at 0 and my animation starts at plus 1. As a rule I never mess with 0 and I also have a back up at - 10. If I am just doing experimentation I will actually start posing ast frame 10 or 20 just to give plenty of distance from 0. But for an actual animation I would start animating at frame 1.

The idea of copying your poses at minus frames is actually a great idea I think. What a great way to save poses for experimentation and for general back ups. Just remember that if your first pose is at 5 and your back up for that is at -5 the curves from this will effect the position of your object at frames 1 - 4 as the curves flow through 0. So you'd have to make everything incoming linear at 0 to stop those curves.

[MysteryMonkey]

. . . . The idea of copying your poses at minus frames is actually a great idea I think. What a great way to save poses for experimentation and for general back ups. Just remember that if your first pose is at 5 and your back up for that is at -5 the curves from this will effect the position of your object at frames 1 - 4 as the curves flow through 0. So you'd have to make everything incoming linear at 0 to stop those curves. . . .

I get what you're saying now. Well together we may have accidentally come up with yet another way to work with creating keyframe backups - Thanks !

[Giacomo99]

I'd just like to put in my two cents here and say that "record pivot rotation" can really screw things up if you don't know exactly what you're doing. My own practice has been to avoid using it if at all possible.

[MysteryMonkey]

I'd just like to put in my two cents here and say that "record pivot rotation" can really screw things up if you don't know exactly what you're doing. My own practice has been to avoid using it if at all possible.

Agreed, that's why its a good practice to do an incremental save when your done doing it.

That being said there is nothing like having all the bone rotations set to 0,0,0 before you begin working with a character. It makes moving a character so much easier if you can do movements by entering the rotation numbers.

[Surrealist.]

For rigging, I really do recommend Timothy Albee's book. Character Animation. He goes into all of this very well in depth. I think it is important to learn the science and art of this from someone who has been down the road a few times.

Setting pivot rotation is indeed something yo should know about. Don't avoid just because you don't know. Find out. It is a vital part of rigging.

[Surrealist.]

I get what you're saying now. Well together we may have accidentally come up with yet another way to work with creating keyframe backups - Thanks !

Indeed. :)

[newsvixen8]

I'm actually using Mr. Albee's book on Character Animation now to walk through a rig; my problem is that after converting the skelegons to bones, and trying to use "Record Pivot Rotation" it isn't working. When the bone is selected and I click Record Pivot Rotation (in LW ver9) it isn't changing the HPB settings to zero as it should. I've tried this in schematic view, and using the scene editor, as well as a viewport. No luck. Now this rig is stalled and Monday is looming...What should I look for?

[newsvixen8]

Just to update my dilemma on "Record Pivot Rotation" function... thanks to a tip from Prospector on another thread, it appears the tool to zero out the HPB settings on bones works just fine if you first set the bones to "rotate." (you know, press "y") I had the default "move" tool active, but since it's on another tab you can't see it. That was why I got NOTHING when trying to use Record Pivot Rotation, either by using the dropdown menu or using "Shift P" It's all good now. Thank you Prospector, wherever you are...