ACS4 vs. The Setup Machine

[Verlon]

Since I can't post in the other thread....

Anyone have both, yet?

I am awaiting TSM from Safe Harbor, and will see how it compares for me. Anyone else with information on this, here is your thread.

Please respect the fact that both of the groups have worked hard to deliver a needed tool to Lightwave users and keep comments constructive (and certainly don't bash the 'other' product if you haven't used it).

I am still getting used to ACS4, but it is surely helping me.

I haven't had a chance to play with the Ninja Rig yet.

[hrgiger]

If you have ACS4, then why would you need TSM? Just wondering. Is ACS4 lacking something for you? They both do the same thing, just probably slightly differently. I have ACS4 and I really like it. I've downloaded the TSM rig and I don't like using it as much, but I could just need to get used to it.

[Verlon]

Why both? Well, if I had just kept ACS4, then the 7.5b patch would have broken it beyond use just as the programmer was seduced by some barbie doll looking model over at the Maya booth at GDC. He would begin working for them and not do anything else for LW (too busy) until AFTER I broke down and bought TSM---kinda like Shave vs Sasquatch. Joe Alter hopes to have a new LW shave update soon, now that I bought Sasquatch.

Rather than put all those ACS4 users through this kind of misery, I bought TSM to circumvent this

[Verlon]

Why both? Well, if I had just kept ACS4, then the 7.5b patch would have broken it beyond use just as the programmer was seduced by some barbie doll looking model over at the Maya booth at GDC. He would begin working for them and not do anything else for LW (too busy) until AFTER I broke down and bought TSM---kinda like Shave vs Sasquatch. Joe Alter hopes to have a new LW shave update soon, now that I bought Sasquatch.

Rather than put all those ACS4 users through this kind of misery, I bought TSM to circumvent this

[hrgiger]

Sure, I guess if you can afford to buy shave and sas, TSM and ACS4. You should buy LW and Maya while you're at it. Maybe even XSI as a backup. I doubt that Worley studios is going anywhere anytime soon and the ACS4 patch was out just hours after 7.5b was released. I guess I don't understand the logic behind buying a porche in case your ferrari breaks down, but to each his own.;)

[Verlon]

Last I checked, Maya featured more decimal places in its price than these plug-ins. There is a difference between a $200 toy and an $8000 software package (at least in my tax bracket).

I was kidding....a little anyway. It really does seem to work that way for me sometimes, though.

They both came out at the same time, and I wanted to try both.

I knew a few guys in the Shave group that had both Sasquatch and Shave and a Haircut. They said that both had strengths and weaknesses, and that there was a time for both (before changes to Lightwave made an un-updated Shave a bit harder to use).

[hrgiger]

Did you see the latest review in Keyframe magazine about Shave vs. Saswquatch? Sas rated about 9 while I think Shave got a 5 out of 10.

[Verlon]

No, I didn't, but it wasn't always like that. When I got shave it was because most people I talked to favored it (at that time).

Times change. Sasquatch is better integrated into LW than Shave right now. Also, isn't Keyframe magazine ran by Newtek? Didn't Newtek adopt Sas-lite not Shave-lite?

Obviously the people at Newtek favored Sas over shave or they would have bought into Shave instead (and I am saying this favortism caused the purchase, not that their purchase slanted the article).


Now, so far, TSM seems a bit easier to use to me, though I have ran into hiccups with both.

I like the "rig half the skeleton, then mirror the other half" approach. If for some reason you chose to model characters in an asymetrical position, this would be a bit troublesome though.

Also (this is subjective), TSM seems to 'auto-rig' a bit faster than ACS4, though its less than a minute either way for a normal biped.

Both groups are providing great support....answering questions quickly, and we all saw how fast ACS4 got updated to deal with LW7.5b.

[hrgiger]

Well, Lee Stranahan is the editor in chief of Keyframe and we all know of his association with Newtek but the article about Shave vs. Sas was written by Timothy Albee, an independant, who was not biased either way. He was attempting to model and texture the same wolf in Shave, Sas, and Sas lite. He even said that the results he got in Sasquatch which were far superior then Shave or Saslite, he didn't expect. Sas has come a long way and with the small team of developers over at Worley labs, I think you'll see even greater things in the next version.

Part of my reason for going with ACS4 over TSM was due to the fact that I think Lukasz is a really amazing animator (Check out http://www.pazur.3d.pl/REF_Home.htm ) and I think he understands what needs to go into a good flexible rig. On the other hand, I used to be an Animation Master user and Raf Anzovin, one of the developers of TSM, was big in the A:M community. I didn't like his work as well, although I know he is very talented. So it was just a matter of personal preference. Not to mention, ACS4 was half as much so if I was even torn a bit between the two, it would obviously be the cheaper one.

[ClingFree]

Well, Raf Anzovin isn't too shabby himself. Although I still went with ACS 4. I hope Verlon will share his experiences with both. I know I would appreciate it.