Lightscape into LW 8! I DID IT!

[Exception]

Finally!
I found a complete pipeline, without hassle, without going through version 5.6 of lightwave, without the need to buy hundreds of dollars worth of plugins, without having to set the plugin options time and time again, without being unable to save your objects...
I found it! It took me weeks, I spent days literally from 10 in the morning until 5 at night trying to work on this.

In the end I have a pipeline that gets you your lightscape model in lightwave, without the polygon limitation nonsense of the import plugin, and have the solution mapped to a Vmap within lightwave. You can then bake the render to a UV map that you create in lightwave after the lightscape solution is imported, so there is no more problem of getting the UV info into Lightscape in the first place.

I focussed on a pipeline which would need no manual adjusting of anything. I know there are a couple of ways but in most you have to go through all the materials and reset the LightScape plugin to its rightfull object. That is not the case with my solution
The only drawback is that you get the full meshed solution in lightwave. That means that all the additional polygon divisions that Lightscape made now exist in Lightwave too. But I also found easy ways to remedy this, depending on the object, with either a small amount of hand work, using a polygon reduction plugin or using a remapper plugin.

In any case, I will write a full and comprehensive tutorial about this soon. If anyone here is interested, please tell me here, which will give me a bit of incentive to work on it.

<Update>

the results that are being achieved are beyond all expectations. Rendertimes of less than a minute with everyhting you want in the scene, reflecting floors corona, impressive backdrops, soft shadows, you name it. Everything you always wanted to do with GI but could never afford to render.
The GI solution is completely static, which means no moving around of key lights. But you can certainly trace all the direct lighting so movement of secondary lights is no problem, and you can get away with animating the sun as well in certain cases, just fading in and out of the GI solution.


The tutorial is now partially done. You can view it here:
http://www.except.nl/Overig/lightscapelightwave.htm

[Muad'dib]

I used to use LS eons ago and haven't touched it for almost as long but am very interested in what you have there Exception :) Great perseverence BTW

[ravantra]

As a long time Lightscaper I am interested! I got started with Lightscape many years ago. I found it very easy to use AutoCAD to create my model and then render in LS........Then I started using LW...!!!!! I would love to be able to bring in some of my old models into LW....


Cool

[Hervé]

Go ahead Exception... !

Go ! run run... fassssttt !!

yes very good idea... and I recall now that you are trying this for sooo long... ! :) ;)

[trick]

Coooooooool :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

I'm very very interested !!!

[doimus]

Hmmm.. I wonder: would it be possible to import radiosity solution from 3dsMax/Viz via this method (I assume max can export LS scene files, can't it?)

Anyway, Lightscape solution paired with FPrime could be a killer combo! :D

[trick]

...import radiosity solution from 3dsMax/Viz...

First Apply UVW-map !!!!!

3DSMAX radiosity and photonmapping and MR GI with Render To Texture.
VRay with Bake3D. Latest Build supports Render To Texture too, but only on a per object basis !!

Then export to 3DS, and import in LW. Map baked textures in Illumination channels.

[Ade]

isnt lightscape now intergrated as 3ds renderer default??? wat advantages do we get?? more explaination.

[shaol]

show us the image

[Exception]

I havnt explained it yet, and there is no image : )

Im busy writing a tutorial about it, as it is quite a complex pipeline, and there are numerous options along the way for different results, depending on what is important.

[Pavlov]

I havnt explained it yet, and there is no image : )

Im busy writing a tutorial about it, as it is quite a complex pipeline, and there are numerous options along the way for different results, depending on what is important.

Go on ;)
I loved LS, though it's quite dated now... its workflow was quite chunky if compared to other actual renderers, but results were top quality.
sittin here and waiting...

Paolo Zambrini

[quatermain]

niiiiice. congratulations!
looking forward to the tutorial

[Ante]

COOL!

I asked about this looong time ago. I worked earlier with lightscape and LW 5.6, but it's a little bit odd returning back to 5.6 everytime.

If you have any news, just spread them around'

greets

ante

[trick]

Exception:

Is there a way to get camera paths between LS and LW...at least from LS --> LW ?

[Darttman]

When I bought LightWave from a local business that went under he also gave me a copy of Lightscape v 2.01. It would be interesting to see what you have been doing.

[JML]

I'm very interested too

[Exception]

I ran into some problems using large complex models. Lightwave seems not to be capable of adding a UV map to a serious complex object. I'm trying to solve it for now, and add it to the tutorial.

[Pavlov]

I ran into some problems using large complex models. Lightwave seems not to be capable of adding a UV map to a serious complex object. I'm trying to solve it for now, and add it to the tutorial.

I remember i was able to use Lightscape shader into LW 7.0...
I modeled into LW, trhen i exported a 3ds obj and i processed it with LS. Then, i re-exported the obj in 3ds format.
When i loaded it into Lw, it was enough (!!! to add manually the shader to every surface and load the relative LS file (containing lighting infos.
Quite a tediuos pipeline, but it worked. Hope it's something more "linear" than that.

Paolo Zambrini

[debil]

Im still using Lightscape and still thinking its the best radiosity solution out there.so Im VERY INTERESTED...

[Exception]

Hi Paolo,

I believe I was the one that found out that that still worked.
However, it has several extreme drawbacks: Try to do this on a complex object which forcefull has hundreds of materials... That takes you hours. Secondly, a large object might not import at all because of the point limit of the plugin. Thridly, there is not ability to save the object, because it will lose the lighting info. Those three things are detrimental to most projects, not to say tedious and it's not too stable either.



I remember i was able to use Lightscape shader into LW 7.0...
I modeled into LW, trhen i exported a 3ds obj and i processed it with LS. Then, i re-exported the obj in 3ds format.
When i loaded it into Lw, it was enough (!!! to add manually the shader to every surface and load the relative LS file (containing lighting infos.
Quite a tediuos pipeline, but it worked. Hope it's something more "linear" than that.

Paolo Zambrini

[Pavlov]

Hi Paolo,

I believe I was the one that found out that that still worked.
However, it has several extreme drawbacks: Try to do this on a complex object which forcefull has hundreds of materials... That takes you hours. Secondly, a large object might not import at all because of the point limit of the plugin. Thridly, there is not ability to save the object, because it will lose the lighting info. Those three things are detrimental to most projects, not to say tedious and it's not too stable either.

Happy to hear this, since this mean you found a better workflow than this. Maybe it will be a real goodie until we get a better GI engine.

Paolo Zambrini

[ddho1981]

Any progress with this? I've always liked the Lightscape radiosity calcs, but hated setting scenes up in it.... just curious.

[Exception]

No one has found a good solution to circumvent the 'UV mapping a very big model crashes modeler'-bug yet. My tutorial will be more or less incomplete without it.

[trick]

Define BIG !!!

There is always the possibility to circumvent this bug, by splitting up scenes inside LS...(suppose splitting up in LW does not fit your setup)

[tektonik]

form-z has been exporting directly to lightscape since version 3

newtek should be able to create a good exporter for it !!!!

frankly all those render engines floating around are nothing compared to LS for archi werk...

come on newtek... call autodessys if you have problems to program :)

form-z is the BEST communication wise it opens and saves almost everything

[trick]

...newtek should be able to create a good exporter for it !!!!...


This is not about importing or exporting models. It's about importing the Lighting (radiosity solution) from LS into LW :eek:

[tektonik]

anyone tried the FBX (kaydara-alias 3d format) via max route for this ?

[trick]

anyone tried the FBX (kaydara-alias 3d format) via max route for this ?

The only way to use ANY radiosity (VRay, MR, Brazil, etc) from MAX is to use Render to Texture or Bake3D and import the model with decent UV's into LW. However, baking a LS solution over the LS-plugin for MAX is a headache/no-go.

[tektonik]

OK ...

then i am anxious to see the result of this magic recipe...

i decided against switching from LW to max... because LS is still good enough for interiors.... and LW is far superior for mega heavy scenes of arch-viz (waiting for the 64 bit version with great anticipation... and 64 bit prime ???)...

i model in form-z though

so plentifull pipeline

form-z / lightwave / lightscape / fprime

[trick]

...i model in form-z though...

That's nice, but I think we're just in the minority. For architecturural vizualisation it is the best and fastest modeler I know of. I'm still on 3.6.8. Is there a good reason to upgrade to 5 ?

[tektonik]

does 3.6 save directly in LW format?

i upgraded to 5 for hopes of good instacing (not tested yet) and for the squiggly hidden-line rendering

[trick]

No direct support for LWO in 3.6.8. but never had ANY problems exporting over 3DS.

I have RenderZone ONLY for material names; I only use FormZ for modeling, NOT rendering. So that's why I ask if upgrading to FZ5 is worth $1000 (I have a 2 seat license)

[tektonik]

the lwo export from form-z 3.9+ is perfect!!!

no welding required no polygon reduction needed (almost)

you should upgrade 1 license just for that alone !

[trick]

The problem is, you always have to upgrade all licenses that are on the SAME serial :(

[jorbedo]

Hi Exception, please just say something, I check for your postings everywhere looking for any tips regardless lightscape, please release the tutorial, you can't imagine how wonderfull would be for me to return to Lightwave and lightscape blazing speeds!, I had been working with Maya-Max for the last year because poor support from NT towards GI, radiosity, and rendering on LW.

PLEASE NEWTEK can you help a few undred maybe a few thousand Lightscape-LW users to integrate the LS plugin with LW7.x-8.x. At least you can get a few very happy users until your next upgrade (Maybe another year, year and a half?), you are loosing a lot of users meanwhile.

Please exception post something, anything, please, please!!!!.

Thanks

JB

[Jure]

Hi Exception, please just say something, I check for your postings everywhere looking for any tips regardless lightscape, please release the tutorial, you can't imagine how wonderfull would be for me to return to Lightwave and lightscape blazing speeds!, I had been working with Maya-Max for the last year because poor support from NT towards GI, radiosity, and rendering on LW.

PLEASE NEWTEK can you help a few undred maybe a few thousand Lightscape-LW users to integrate the LS plugin with LW7.x-8.x. At least you can get a few very happy users until your next upgrade (Maybe another year, year and a half?), you are loosing a lot of users meanwhile.

Please exception post something, anything, please, please!!!!.

Thanks

JB

I second that motion! Hope to hear something soon...

[jorbedo]

Maybe you can share with some of us waiting for this workflow, maybe with a little help you can find the solution faster, don't worry you can keep the credits (jeje, Just joking), I was thinking to sell my LW and lightscape until I read your post.

Can you give us a timeframe to release this?.

Thanks

JB

[debil]

If anyone even countinues with Ls production I think billons will be at their account, just dont know why someone doesnt understand this?!

[Exception]

Hi guys, sorry to keep you waiting...
Ive been away on holidays, ben in the hosiptal with a sick relative and graduating at the same time... I am not happy about that modeler bug either, which ruins my own plans to use my workflow.

For now I have just copy-pasted the little bit I have written about using the NORMAL way of using a lightscape solution in lightwave into a webpage. this does not really contain anything that I have painstakingly developed, this methods is known to some, so for you looking for my own technique and not interested in the ordinary way (using the Lightscape shader), youll need to wait.

this is the webpage:

http://www.except.nl/Overig/lightscapelightwave.htm

Its text only too. Ill promist to have something more decent next week.

[Exception]

Ok, I added a section explaining the setting up of a scene in Lightscape...
It needs to be a very complete tutorial : )

[prospector]

I'm trying to read about it but that car...THAT CAR!!!!
it keeps drawing my eyes from the page I'm trying to look at :D
I've read the same sentence 7 times now ;)

later that same day.....


I had to put a piece of duct tape over the screen there, now I can read :rolleyes:

[Exception]

I'm trying to read about it but that car...THAT CAR!!!!
it keeps drawing my eyes from the page I'm trying to look at :D
I've read the same sentence 7 times now ;)

later that same day.....


I had to put a piece of duct tape over the screen there, now I can read :rolleyes:


Yaaay... the messerschmidt! Its such a nice car too.
Ok Ill remove it from all but the first page.

Don;t you think its cute?

[Exception]

To poke your curiosity (as its been awfully quiet in here the last few days : ) ) here is an image you will get when following the tutorial carefully, and after you have applied Virtual Darkroom and Corona.

It renders at 640x480, Low enhanced AA on a P4 2.2 Ghz in about one minute. Yaay! Someone say Vray? Kray? Final Render? Phah... : )
By the way, the grain is from Virtual Darkroom as a film simulation, its not in the actual render. I think it is nice so I added it in. Isnt it great you get to ADD grain to your liking...

The important part of the tutorial is almost done in its rudimentary form. I will of course continue to refine it and so forth.

[prospector]

Ok Ill remove it from all but the first page.
NO WAY!
It's cute
disturbing...but cute :D

I'm still looking for a ver of LS around :(

[ddho1981]

In order to import a 5.6 scene into lightscape, do I need to have a 5.6 object copy of every item of the scene? I maintain a library of furniture, cars, etc. . . does this mean that for every scene i make, I need to put a 5.6 copy of all the objects in one folder fo ls to access?

[Exception]

In short: yes.
In long: perhaps.

Using my preferred method, as you can read on the first page of the tutorial, you will need to manually save out each object to a V5 version, and load all those back into Layout, then export that scene to a V5 scene. You will end up with a completely V5 compatible scene and objects.
However, as I have described, some things dont get converted, like lights, object positions, and cameras. If this is all crucial for you, you might want to consider converting your scene using Deep exploration or Polytrans to MAX and from MAX to a Lightscape preparation file. Polytrans can also directly convert to Lightscape preparation. However I have warned of possible object and expecially material corruption. This will most likely happen therefore I advise against using any of those methods.

Ways to circumvent the problems of the LW-> V5 method:
Placement of objects can be done in modeler, creating duplicate geometry when using clones but it will be duplicated by the other converters too.
The importing of lights might go all right. See if it doesnt work, and if it doesnt, perhaps convert your scene using Deep Exploration or Polytrans, then open in Lightscape, ditch all the blocks and keep the luminaires. Import the V5 scene using 'merge' instead of 'replace' of the Lightwave import dialog, and there you have a correct scene, with lights.

[ddho1981]

yeesh . . . seems like quite a bit of a hassle. it's too bad that the LS renderer is so hard to get to from LW. Is there a script that can save all objects of a scene as 5.6? seems like there could be a way to make a converter within lightwave to a 5.6 scene with all the objects involved? maybe via content manager? i don't know anything about lscript writing but it seems like a do-able thing. . .

[Exception]

Yes that would be neat... Although it would probably prove problematic as only Layout can export the scene to V5 and only modeler can export the objects to V5.

but what complexity of scene in heavens name are we talking about for it to be such a big deal? I mean, if you have 10 objects or so, whack some in one object and export that. I never spent more than 10 minutes on saving the files...

Another thing tho, you can use deep exploration and polytrans to convert a scene from V8 to V5, and it only involves pressing some buttons... but again, you can get corruption.

[ddho1981]

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=25648
in this particular image there was 17 different objects including, light fixtures, tv, speakers, picture frames/paintings, chairs, tables, etc, tec)

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=33002
then there are projects like this where it's three different scenes and each with a number of objects . . .

i tried a demo of polytrans and unless i put all the files and textures in one folder for it to find it doesn't seem to work right . . . maybe i didn't play with it enough.

while it is easy enough to copy all objects in a scene into one file, that would produce a huge model, what with multiple copies of things and such. plus, in dealing with clients it is much easier to manipulate placement of furniture in layout because i can see instantly how it affects the view, etc. i haven't actually tried copying everything to one model so maybe i'll do that one of these days to see how tedious it is... maybe i'm over-estimating the complexity of the process?

[Exception]

I am afraid you are overestimating the whole ordeal.
Don't put everything in a separate model, but be smart about it. you can move stuff around in Lightscape too, and although its not incredibly easy when you dont know what you're doing, moving selections of polygons around in Lightscape is perfectly possible.

The below screen shots are from the Lightwave -> lightscape -> lightwave factory, and contain about 8 separate models each. Takes about 2 minutes saving them out.

I suspect you can see these are for clients too. I wouldnt go out to design such settings myself just for fun.

[ddho1981]

Well, then I guess I'll have to try it for myself as soon as I can pry myself away from World of Warcraft after work :) thanks for the consultation.

[3DBob]

Hi Exception

Well done that man! That is a much better way. - I've yet to try it but I've already bought a copy of Accutrans, what a bargain, I hope he gets encouraged to add more LW/LS functionality.

I've found my LS dongle - and this will make you laugh it is c1995!!! Check out the scan... I've removed my key no. and replaced it with a suitable phrase.

So sad that this tech has been about for nearly 10 years - and still people struggle to attain the same quality - Like the old lightscape site said "This isn't a photograph - it's your competitive advantage".

What is more, this is vertex maps - so it should work with FPrime - Yippee!!

Now I need to find the old installs I think they are in the loft - I'm not sure I ever did anything with the 3.2 upgrade, I was originally hoping it would solve those 6+ woes.

3DBob

[jorbedo]

Hats off to Mr. Tom Bosschaert , what a wonderfull explanation and solutions coming from Tom, I had been waiting for this kind of solution for 3 years and now we have the chance to get our rendering times down.

One thing that is amazing is that this guy never asked for donations (at least that I know) to post or send a PDF with the tutorial.

He did what NewTek never wanted to do, revitalize LW on the archviz community, we were asking to get the LS-LW plugin or a replacement a long time ago, but they never listened, (But they keep saying that they listen their customers), I was thinking to place my LW and LS on sale, not now!. At least I got a very usefull workaround, something that Newtek had to do.

THANK YOU TOM!

[jorbedo]

Please NewTek bend your heads to this Thread, You have so many LW users on the Archivz that you cannot imagine, and a lot of us only use LW because the LS connection, even if we have to go back to LW5.6 just to use it.

Don't you get it, there is no other solution like this one (Not as fast), give us translator, plug-in, whatever, BUT DO SOEMTHING!, you can make a plug-in of your own, you got the experts to make it possible.

We know all the history about Lightscape and Discreet, and all about the support for this software, but we are asking for your support now. Give us shortcuts to all Tom's problems, guide us!.

Thank you NewTek

[Muad'dib]

My hat off to you Exception,

Thank you for your time and effort in putting this together. It's not hard to see that here's a bucket load of interest in achieving this sort of lighting solution in terms of quality and speed and I'm sure NT are well aware of this. I hope that they are also aware of this thread and something good comes of it. It's about time we had these types of solutions from native LW anyway and not have to hope for the answer from external sources.

Can't wait to give all this a propper go. Your write up on this is hugely appreciated and respected Exception :)

[Ade]

Please NewTek bend your heads to this Thread, You have so many LW users on the Archivz that you cannot imagine, and a lot of us only use LW because the LS connection, even if we have to go back to LW5.6 just to use it.

Don't you get it, there is no other solution like this one (Not as fast), give us translator, plug-in, whatever, BUT DO SOEMTHING!, you can make a plug-in of your own, you got the experts to make it possible.

We know all the history about Lightscape and Discreet, and all about the support for this software, but we are asking for your support now. Give us shortcuts to all Tom's problems, guide us!.

Thank you NewTek


Agreed totally.

[Exception]

Hi Jobedo, thanks for your kind words, they flatter me. Don;t forget I got help from Wayne Hogue of Micromouse, who specially coded the parts of Accutrans necessary.

Newtek has been more or less helpfull in some parts of this process. Ben Vost of Lightwave Europe helped on occasion with bugs that were encountered, and thanks to him the V5 conversion in LW 8.2 is much MUCH faster and more stable than ever before.

Things that would really speed up the workflow is some kind of utility that exports an entire scene, in one go, to a V5 version scene and objects.

Otherwise I don't think there is much Newtek can do. I have spoken with Autodesk about the LS shader and import plugins, but I am sure I wasnt the first to ask. They are as reluctant as even can be. 3DBob's dongle adjustment is certainly accurate, not just funny : )


My workflow is streamlined to maximum effect. It looks deceptively simple, and its not that I want to blow my own horn, but it really did take half a year of on and off research to do this. I have tried so many other methods as well, and this is the most usefull one. I have actually considered asking money for the tutorial. There's a lot of time and money involved with this project. However, Ben Vost didnt ask me for money for his help, Wayne Hogue didnt ask me for money for his help, and so many others didn't either. Besides I am as happy with the workflow as you are, I suppose, so that is enough satisfaction as it is.

[CB_3D]

This is amazing! Are the baked solutions in Lightwave used in the color or the diffuse channel?

[3DBob]

I've now found my LS3.2 disks - the box had 3 years worth of dust on it and was barely recognisable.

I totally believe the time it took to come up with this method and really appreciate all you and all those involved have done. It is the relative simplicity that shows the effort you have gone through - In terms of useability, the result in LW8 appears simpler and more flexible than that from the old LS plugin. Brilliant job.

I think the Lscript to do the export should be relatively simple - anyone know any coders?

And in case anyone hasn't spotted it yet, I inserted the line "Development Restricted by Autodesk" onto the dongle.

3DBob

[Exception]

This is amazing! Are the baked solutions in Lightwave used in the color or the diffuse channel?

At first, they are used in the vertex Color map channel. Depending on how you bake them, you can put them in color, luminosity or in diffuse.

[wacom]

Where in the hell can I find Ligthscape? Is the company gone?

Sorry for the post...I've found out why we can't get it anymore. Why isn't this technology being used still? What a shame...

[ddho1981]

Lightscape was taken over by autodesk . . . which means it is no longer in development. I'm not sure they sell it anymore on their site. Your best bet may be Ebay . . .

[CB_3D]

At first, they are used in the vertex Color map channel. Depending on how you bake them, you can put them in color, luminosity or in diffuse.

So,if i use them in lumiunosity or in diffuse,in Lightscape i could simply use all white materials,right? I would only use collor bleeding.

[Exception]

I guess so, but color bleeding won't occur then. I feel it would be a shame to do so. But you can always change your bakes maps in photoshop anyway, if you bake them per material or so... also using the old method, you can always change the colors anyway you want.

[CB_3D]

I remember that baking into hires maps took a loooong time in 7.5. Is that still the case?

Any chance the baking part will make it into the tutorial in the next week? :D

[CB_3D]

Right atthe first step trying to import the LW5 scene and object into LS 3.2 i run into the following error.


"no polygons were created possibly because the imported polygons were too small"

Is there a Lightscape forum somewhere?

[jorbedo]

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=18

[jorbedo]

Hi Guys, I was playing with the model on the vertex paint on modeller and is impressive how this workflow works, I had been trying to find a wayto get all this maps baked to a model without succes.

It is possible to burn/bake all this info to a polygon reduced model without using Microwave (Too much money just to start playing, and waiting for Exception tutorial, if it's worth it).

Exception, any news about the microwave tutorial?.

Thanks you,

Jorbedo

[Muad'dib]

CB_3D - when importing into LW make sure your content directory is one dir up from what it would be in LW ... I found that to work and solve that error you're getting.

[Exception]

Right atthe first step trying to import the LW5 scene and object into LS 3.2 i run into the following error.


"no polygons were created possibly because the imported polygons were too small"

Is there a Lightscape forum somewhere?

Hi,

Please got to Part II of the tutorial, Step 2, I have explained what is going wrong when that happens. The solution, copied pasted here is:

If Lightscape tells you no polygons were created because they are possibly too small, you have probably tried to import either Lightwave V6+ objects (most probably), or the content directory structure is not working. Check whether all objects are in place, within the content directory structure and in V5 format.

[Exception]

Exception, any news about the microwave tutorial?.
Thanks you,
Jorbedo

As far as I have been able to logically reason about this, Microwave is the one and ONLY way to get your solution back to a non-tesselated model.
HOWEVER, microwave is so fantasticly cool, if you are to use my method a lot, i sincerely recommend getting it. Why? It is not only a projection engine, it's baking is MUCH faster and much more controleable. It does what you want it to do, superfast, efficient and spot on correct.

I have not tackled that part of the tutorial yet. I will try to see if I have time in the weekend... But its fairly easy so I'll have that finished soon probably.
Baking with Surface Baker is um... less than optimal...

[Exception]

Ok, as a present to you guys im going to reveal the strongest part of my method. I actually did all this to get my graduation project running in realtime. That's right, the solution baked and all running realtime. Its pretty easy too. I will not write a tutorial for that part I think... I dunno... maybe...

Anyway, to prove you guys its easily possible, I made the test scene realtime. Its a bit of a download because of the large image maps but here you go:

You need a VRML viewer for this. I have only tested it with Bitmanagement BS contact 6.2 ( http://www.bitmanagement.com/download/playerdownload.en.html ). Your settings will determine the quality. Set the renderer to DX7 or 9 (whatever works), Set the textures to 2048 max, and MIP mapping to OFF (or else youll get seams). Use PGDWN and PGUP to switch preset camera positions, and walk around all you like. (the first camera position can get you stuck behind the glass).

http://www.except.nl/Overig/lslwtute/SimpleHouseVRML.rar

You also need rar to unpack it, if you dont already have it. Put all files in one directory and just run the .wrl file after you installed the viewer.

To make this clear, to get this final, realtime, result you need the following programs thoughout the enitre process:

Superfast rendering:
Lightwave v7+
Lightscape 3.x
Accutrans 3D 2.9.9 or above (www.micromouse.ca) ($20)

Actual Realtime:
Lightwave v7+
Lightscape 3.x
Accutrans 3D 2.9.9 or above (www.micromouse.ca) ($20)
Microwave from Evasion 3D (http://www.evasion3d.com/mw_lw_intro.html) ($499)

Blaxxun Contact is also a good viewer, but it doesnt want to run on any of my systems anymore. Advantage of Blaxxun would be that it's free. BS Contact displays a stupid block thing in the viewport unless you pay them in excess of 200 euro's.

[wildwong]

Everything is okay, but when I export the VRML scene from Lightscape, it shows me a diaologue box like this:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18216&stc=1

Warning: textures referenced by absolute pathname in output file reote VRML browsers may not be able to access the textures. Search for 'Texture2' in output file to find texture nodes if you want to change the references.

And as I can see in AccuTrans, the only material is 'Object' (and of course it doens't export to lwo in 'layer' style.

I assigned each of the object (materials) a white.jpg as texture maps already, in order to 'seperating' them into editable 'layers'.

What did I miss for the critical part?

Regards,


Ken Wong

[Jure]

And as I can see in AccuTrans, the only material is 'Object' (and of course it doens't export to lwo in 'layer' style.

I assigned each of the object (materials) a white.jpg as texture maps already, in order to 'seperating' them into editable 'layers'.

What did I miss for the critical part?

Regards,


Ken Wong
You need to have different image (file name) for each material you want to export seperately.

[Exception]

As Jure Indicates, this is exactly what is going wrong.
You need to have White-1.jpg, white-2.jpg, white-3.jpg and so forth. They can be anything really.

In fact, if you care lots about the material color you have given your material in Lightscape, you can make the image the color of the material. This way the color gets preserved.

In effect, when applying the texture map, Lightscape no longer stores the color information in the file, as it assumes the texture map is sufficient color information. Applying no texture map therefore gets you your color but no separation.

You can alsywas still re-apply the color in Lightwave, which will give you exactly the same result as when it was in LightScape.


Im currently working on this problem and I think I found an (easy) solution, but care to investigate this for myself first.

[wildwong]

As Jure Indicates, this is exactly what is going wrong.
You need to have White-1.jpg, white-2.jpg, white-3.jpg and so forth. They can be anything really.

In fact, if you care lots about the material color you have given your material in Lightscape, you can make the image the color of the material. This way the color gets preserved.

In effect, when applying the texture map, Lightscape no longer stores the color information in the file, as it assumes the texture map is sufficient color information. Applying no texture map therefore gets you your color but no separation.

You can alsywas still re-apply the color in Lightwave, which will give you exactly the same result as when it was in LightScape.


Im currently working on this problem and I think I found an (easy) solution, but care to investigate this for myself first.

Thanks June and Exception. Still converting some interior scenes for my current project, since the rendering has to be started after we have shot the human plates, and when shooting finished, we prolly don't have enuf time to rendering (8-15 minutes a frame, with approx. 15-20 scenes, each with 200-300 frames~~)

So we really need to do the interior thing in this way. Re-organise the models is time consuming tho, but we have no choice actually. Thanks Exception again!

[jorbedo]

Can you recommend any tips and plug-ins to make models in a lightscape "safe" workflow?, I saw LWCAD, looks fine.

It is possible that you can share modelling tips in the future along your Lightscape tutorial?.

Thank you,

Jorbedo

[Exception]

Well...
I wasn't about to... there are tutorials to find on the net on how to model for Lightscape properly. LWCAD looks nice, I didnt know about those tools, very handy! However LWCAd will not really help you in this case I suppose. It is more a way of thinking about modeling that will help you.

Just don't ever make intersecting geometry. Ever.

[bjornkn]

I posted a question on the SpinQuad thread on the same topic, but unfortunately it seems to be down for maintenance right now..

The question was about how to get Lightscape authorized now that it is gone, even from the entire Autodesk site?
I have Lightscape 3.1.1, which I bought years ago, but never installed because suddenly I didn't need it any more at the time.
This release is released before Autodesk bought them.
Yhe problem is that it needs to be authorized, to be able to run it for more than 15 days.
But where, and how - that's the big question ?

This thread is really interesting, and could solve a lot of time/quality problems with interiors in LW.

[3DBob]

AFAIK there is no way to get it authorised - which is a joke. I'm stuck with putting a virtual machine on my computer and gosting its WIN2K install before installing lightscape 3.1 then the 3.2 upgrade. After 15 days if I still need to run it, then I reset the base install and re-install lightscape to use for another 15 days. Using this method though - you can run LS under Win2K on your XP machine so no compatibility issues.

I am on the look out for another option - but it is very hard to find, if you know what I mean and I hate wasting the time when I shouldn't have to. Grrrr Autodesk Die Grrrr. This is why I will never buy their products PERIOD (well apart from the 3.2 upgrade I bought years ago).

3DBob

[debil]

Have a question?
I have modeled a few scenes in autocad and then proces them in Ls ( importing was done in dxf format)...can I export that scene now from Ls to Lightwave, using tutorials from Exception?

[Jure]

Have a question?
I have modeled a few scenes in autocad and then proces them in Ls ( importing was done in dxf format)...can I export that scene now from Ls to Lightwave, using tutorials from Exception?

Yes sure. There should be no problem. Once you have it in LS it doesn't realy matter where it came from - it's just a bunch of polys.

[Exception]

True in most part Jure, except that for the last stage, the making into a realtime model, you might be sorry that you don;t have an untesselated model to proejct the solution upon.
Other than that it'll be fine.

[Jure]

True in most part Jure, except that for the last stage, the making into a realtime model, you might be sorry that you don;t have an untesselated model to proejct the solution upon.
Other than that it'll be fine.

Oh, yea forgot about that part... Though even that could be done, I guess, by importing original dxf model directly into LW and then using tesselated model from LS to bake lighting from...

[debil]

So all I need is to get accutrans and Im off?! :cool:

P.s. NewTek what you you say about Ls and Lp plugin, Max has it!

[debil]

Another question...
If you use no mesh in LS, let say on a simple sphere
After the procesing there will be some dark splotches on the sphere that are realy mistakes because we didnt allow Ls to make any mesh...will mistakes also be visible in Lightwave...think yes?!

[bjornkn]

AFAIK there is no way to get it authorised - which is a joke. I'm stuck with putting a virtual machine on my computer and gosting its WIN2K install before installing lightscape 3.1 then the 3.2 upgrade. After 15 days if I still need to run it, then I reset the base install and re-install lightscape to use for another 15 days. Using this method though - you can run LS under Win2K on your XP machine so no compatibility issues.

3DBob

Hm, this doesn't sound good. Will it not even run on XP then?

I sent an email to Autodesk here in Norway, and just got a reply from them to send in my serial nr, and then they would try to get it authorixed for me. This was 5min ago, so I haven't heard from them yet.

[bjornkn]

Well...
I wasn't about to... there are tutorials to find on the net on how to model for Lightscape properly. LWCAD looks nice, I didnt know about those tools, very handy! However LWCAd will not really help you in this case I suppose. It is more a way of thinking about modeling that will help you.

Just don't ever make intersecting geometry. Ever.

This sounds like a modelling job for SketchUp then :)
In SketchUp it's very easy to make models with no intersections.
As soon as I get my Lightscape up and running I'll give it a try.

Are there any other Lightscape modelling rules?

[Exception]

will mistakes also be visible in Lightwave...think yes?!

Of Course.
However, they are easy to remedy. You can vertex paint the mistakes away, or, if you decide to bake the solution, after baking you can image edit the mistakes out.

However, if you choose 'No mesh' in Lightscape, it will only make errors when it is a model that does not conform to Lightscape's model guidelines. I have no problems with that, and as you can see, the tutorial model doesnt have errors.

Regarding Sketchup... Sketchup is fine, but for complicated tasks I prefer Laightwave Modeler. Its perfectly suited for modeling the Lightscape way, and that is one of the reasons why the Lightwave -> Lightscape -> Lightwave workflow is so powerfull.

[jorbedo]

Not to push you, but hey you gave us the most sweetest candy wraped around Lightwave, I had been enjoying this workflow a lot.

Jorbedo

[Exception]

Okay, if you write the 50 applications for scholarships and grants I have to drawup today, I'll make the tutorial : )

Im planning a study in the US, which is rather expensive...

[ravantra]

bjornkn,

I started testing Sketchup last week for another project and all I can say is WOW. Great program for "quick" modeling and rough design. It imports very easily into Lightwave. Sketchup works so well it made Autodesk drop their product called Architectural Studio. Give it a try, I am using their trial version.

[ddho1981]

agreed about sketchup. I've been using it for a couple of years now. there definately things that lightwave still handles MUCH better, but for your typical architectural models, it's a breeze. about 95% of my models now come from sketchup.

[debil]

Question
When I import a scene from Ls to Lw through accutrans, can I render caustics?
I mean they apear only when radiosity is on in Lw, but now when we didnt make radiosity calculation in Lw, I think they wont appear, right? :confused:

[Exception]

I wasn't aware radiosity needed to be on in order for caustics to work...
Are you certain?
If so, then probably not. On the other hand, you can always have all objects exclude the light and just throw caustics from whatever object you want to throw caustics from. It should work that way.

[illusory]

My copy of Lightscape 3.2 has been gathering dust for a few years now, and I have been bemoaning the fact that I came into Lightwave at 6.5, so I don't have a copy of LW 5 lying around to make the transition...

I love Lightscape's radiosity solutions -- really wanted to integrate with Lightwave, and be able to use 8.2's features as well. I'm looking forward to trying out the workflow.

Many thanks for developing this solution!!!
NJ

[Exception]

Glad you find it usefull...
please notice the completely voluntary paypal donate button on the tutorial site : )

On another note, Ive found a way to include lightmaps into VRML solutions. This would enable you to make really big VRML files with detailed material textures that run well on virtually any video card. You can then use the lightscape solution in a fully Lightwave textured and rendered model in VRML....
I only need someone who can write VRML files, or know how they work, because I have some problems with copying fog, background gradient and camera positions into the final vrml file. If anyone can help out, or knows someone who can, please contact me through the email listed at my site: http://www.except.nl

[illusory]

Thanks for alerting me to "the completely voluntary paypal donate button on the tutorial site : )
"!

I have a question about the tutorial. In a couple places you refer to a 'Part VI", where the use of Microwave with this workflow is described.
Such as:
"If you want to really properly get back to the original Lightwave model with the textures applied, you will need to use the method describes in Part VI of this tutorial, using the Microwave plugin that needs to be bought"

Where is Part VI? or is this a typo refering to another section? I've looked, but only see a couple of similar, intriguing references...I'd really like to see your information on this!

many thanks,
NJ

[Exception]

Well, the tutorial is brand new, and it isnt completely finished yet. Part VI needs to be written still, but since I am also graduating and applying for postgraduate studies abroad I find little time to work on it. I probably will this week or so.
If you are really curious, send me a mail and Ill quickly explain it to you, as it is rather straightforward.

[bjornkn]

What are the advantages of lightmap vs "baked" textures?
Will that lightmap solution also be covered in your tutorials then?
And will it also involve Microwave?
(Looks like I'll have to get that plugin soon ;-)

[Exception]

What are the advantages of lightmap vs "baked" textures?
Will that lightmap solution also be covered in your tutorials then?
And will it also involve Microwave?


bjornkn:

The advantages: You can swap textures, and it won't affect the lighting solution. all textures can be changed and altered. All material properties can be changed completely without negatively affecting the radiosity solution.

Disadvantages: You have a heavily tesselated mesh. Radiosity solution is very difficult to edit since they are vertex color maps. Try to edit those without a hassle... but it can be done.

To get the vertex maps to texture maps use surface baker (will not get rid of tesselated mesh) or Microwave (will get rid of tesselated mesh).

Advantages of texture maps: Easy to edit, many tolls available (photoshop, etc). Ability to manipulate the mesh without affecting radiosity solution. Better export possibilities.

Disadvantages: Can be hard on your system if the maps are big. Lots of work to make them. You have to properly UV map your model to do it, and bake all maps individually. Textures cannot be edited afterwards (unless you use lightmaps, but this is eaxtra work again).


Lightmaps will eventually be covered in my tutorial. However, I still have to figure out the fine details myself. Its quite a handfull because baking the liminosity channel does not work. I do have a method in mind but it involves going back to Lightscape to change some stuff there...
It will not necessarily need MicroWave, unless you want the untesselated model. Really all Microwave permits you to do is get rid of the high poly count, and dramtically ease and speed up the baking process, but other than that, Surface Baker works too.

[bjornkn]

Thanks again Exception :)
This is a real good help in the jungle.

I think what I want togo for is the baked untesselated (original) model with straight uv mappng and textures. Which means I'll have to buy Microwave.
With this setup I will have ready-(GI)lit textured low-poly models.
Then there are two options from there - either render walk-throughs in LW, after eventually adding more objects and/or lights etc.
Or - which looks very promising right now, convert those low-poly LW models to Wirefusion scenes, for realtime interactive walkthroughs in realistic surroundings.
As this is a Java solution (the only non-plugin solution I've found) it should work on all platforms running Java, including PDA and mobile phones (?).
http://www.demicron.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=788 for a thread on PDA compatibility.
I was planning to wait for your Microwave tutorial before buying anything, but as I have a bit of spare time ahead I don't think I can wait any longer before buying MW :)
In fact I just bought it while writing this message :)

[bjornkn]

That wasn't a good start I guess :-(
It took a long time before I got the downloads from SafeHarbour, and then I was out for a few hours yesterday night. When I had downloaded and installed it was too late to get the activation key for Microwave, so it looks like I'll have to wait until Monday night :-(
Not a good start, and I really wish they had used some other type of "copy protection", which allowed the user to start using it right away. Like they say - you can never change a first impression!
Apart from that I really think they could have put some more effort into the manual, as it doesn't really explain much :(
And no updates in 2 years?
Is it really that bugfree and perfect that it can't be improved?

[Exception]

Concerning using the solution in Wireframe: Im sure it can. I use straight VRML, which works fine with me. I had hassles with Quest3D as tis a flakey piece of software in my book... but you can export and convert all you like. Its just models with textures on it.

I never ever had Microwave crash or do something unexpected. So concerning this I think its rather bug free. Although there is one thing... when baking huge textures, your lightwave camera size must be set high too... otherwise you get weird ugly textures... hmm...
btw, I wrote the microwave tutorial down in text for someone. IF you want that part already, just email me. My email address can be found on http://www.except.nl in the contect section.

[debil]

Helo!
Thanx for the tutorial!
I found some problem and canot simply get rid of it. When making glass type objects in scene, with reflection and transparency, objects render ultra bright. Even with luminosity to 0% and difuse to 0%. When using just one, reflection or transparency, everything is fine, but 2 together simply doesnt work.
Also seems that some objects deform when importing the lwo. from Accutrans.
Please help!
Thanx!

[debil]

Another thing that Ive noticed.
The real Lightscape radiosity solution is visible only when luminosity is set to 100 % and difuse to 0 %. Im thinking that this luminosity is maybe causing bright ref/trans, but also with luiminosity set to 100% bump maps arent visible.
Any idea ? :confused:

[Exception]

Well, you seem to have overlooked certain pointers in the tutorial.
First, Don't select 'compact model' when exporting VRML, that will distort your model. Accutrans doesn't distort anything.

Perhaps it is not quite clear to your hwat exactly happens with the lighting of the model. The lighting is fixed on a vertex-map level. This means that you're not supposed to add more light with Lightwave light, except for the direct lights if you have 'store direct illumination' off in Lightscape before exporting. Second, bump maps only react to light, so it's logical for them not to show up if there are no lights. This is all explained in the tutorial. you can easily add the effect of a bump map by putting the bump map in the color channel. It won't be exactly the same, but close enough.
so bumps will only show there where direct light form the Lightwave lights will hit the surface.
Thus, 100% lumionosity is needed for the LS solution to show up, and 0~100% diffuse is needed for the surfaces to react to the LightWave lights. They're not supposed to be 0% at all.

Concerning transparent/reflective surfaces, just don't use the vertex map. Use a normal surface such as a glass preset. Glass for instance, doesn't have diffuse properties anyway, thus no radiosity calculation is needed.

You should remember the vertex maps are a subtractive process, and that color maps are an replacement process.

[debil]

Thanx!!
Yes, you where right abouth the compact mode, it was turned on :rolleyes:
Well seems that the best way is to bake the vertexes and aplying them to color maps, guess ill need to turn to Evasion3D for that.
But this thing with transp/ref glass, yes diffuse was set to 0, and I didnt apply any vertex map????!!!!!

[debil]

Well, I went again few times throu your tut. but this is still a problem.
Picture 1. With diffuse on 100% and image map applied on the surface , plane is black!
Picture 2. With luminosity on 100 % and image applied on surface, plane is visible!
On your site Freq. asked question. Why do some surfaces render black?
Well my image aplied has compleatly different name then any other, and still goes black?!!
One more, bump maps are not visible. Puting them on color maps , does not create an bump effect!
Does anyone else have any problem with this?!

[Exception]

Ok, I see where it goes wrong...
The luminosity parameter controls the brightness of the radiosity solution. It is a subtractive solution so in order to make the solution show up the surface should also be made white. You can change the color if you wish. If you wish the radiosity solution to show up AT ALL you need a value higher than 0% for the luminosity channel. Typically 100% for the exact Lightscape solution brightness.

Now the diffuse parameter controls the response of the model to the lightWave lights in ADDITION to the solution. therefore you set this to higher than 0% if you want the surface to respond to some lights you have set up in your scene. You therefore need to set BOTH the luminosity AND the diffuse to 100% if you want to show both the lightscape and the lightwave lighting. Bump maps will only show up where LightWave lighting will directly hit the surface (and when it shows up, of course, by setting the diffuse higher than 0%).

Hope this helps.

[debil]

The luminosity parameter controls the brightness of the radiosity solution. It is a subtractive solution so in order to make the solution show up the surface should also be made white. You can change the color if you wish. If you wish the radiosity solution to show up AT ALL you need a value higher than 0% for the luminosity channel. Typically 100% for the exact Lightscape solution brightness I think I already said that few post earlier!

First things first!

Putting Luminosity chanel and Diffuse chanel both on 100 % will cause oversatureted surfaces, so that wrong!

Making surfaces color to white doesnt have absolutly no effect!!!
You can choose red or black also, its the same, because of the radiosity stored in the vertex color map puting luminosity chanell to 100% will show our true colors (radiosity mesh and shadows), then if you want you can remove texture map on the color chanell ( image map that we applied in LS) and put any color we want, like eg. make blue walls, that were first white.

Diffuse will normaly make surface react to Lightwaves light, in order to see any affect on them, including bump maps. Not completly true!
To see any kind of affect like bumps on surfaces, you need to open render dialog and put ray trace shadows OFF!
Best thing to do, is to have an distant light in scene which doesnt have strong light affect on surfaces and combine it with luminosity chanell. Also, your bump maps will be all visible!
But light has to have some itensity. Dont never put in on 0 because you will get highly saturated image with distant light, or "ultraViolent" space with any other light. Picture1.

If I find any more problems Ill post them again :cool: , so that this procedure works at least 95%!

[rainman]

WOW Debil!
Thank you very much for the informations. It realy cleared some thing out!
I have a question: How can I create an effect of direct lightning from the sun on the floors or walls within Lightwave, because I want to have smooth shadows from the sun.It has to be Lightwave not Lightscape!
Cheers!

[Exception]

I think I already said that few post earlier!

First things first!

Putting Luminosity chanel and Diffuse chanel both on 100 % will cause oversatureted surfaces, so that wrong!

I'm sorry to say Debil, but Ive been working with this method for more than a year now. I can assure you it is not wrong, so please don;t get upset. Remember I developed this myself over a long period of time, and I gave it to you for free, so please stay courteous.

Perhaps it is best to investigate why in your case the colors turn oversaturated if you have both parameters at 100%.
I think it might be because you actually have Lightwave lights in the scene. These lights will add to the lightscape solution. Are you rendering shadows? Are you sure the strength of the Lightwave light is appropriate to the light?


Making surfaces color to white doesnt have absolutly no effect!!!
You can choose red or black also, its the same, because of the radiosity stored in the vertex color map puting luminosity chanell to 100% will show our true colors (radiosity mesh and shadows), then if you want you can remove texture map on the color chanell ( image map that we applied in LS) and put any color we want, like eg. make blue walls, that were first white.

Look, debil, it doesn't work like that, and I have explained it quite well in the tutorial and in this thread.
The vertex color maps are SUBTRACTIVE. So if you take black, and subtract information from it, they stay black. Therefore the basis is white. I think you have another problem going for you, but talking about it like this isn;t helping.
Perhaps posting the scene in both LS and LW/LWO format would be more helpfull.

Diffuse will normaly make surface react to Lightwaves light, in order to see any affect on them, including bump maps. Not completly true!
To see any kind of affect like bumps on surfaces, you need to open render dialog and put ray trace shadows OFF!

Of course not. This will mess up the whole scene.
Like I explained, you will only be able to see bump maps where the direct light hits the surfaces. Of course, if you turn shadows off, direct light will hit everything, you will get OVER-EXPOSED lighting which is probably the problem you are having, it will look nothing like the original Lightscape scene, will mess up the accuracy and contrast, and many more.
therefore it is usggested to use a color map instead.

Best thing to do, is to have an distant light in scene which doesnt have strong light affect on surfaces and combine it with luminosity chanell. Also, your bump maps will be all visible!

Sure you can do that but it'll be really hard to compensate and mess with each individual channel. it will invalidate the lightscape results. Not calculating shadows from the direct lights is really not the way to go.

If I find any more problems Ill post them again :cool: , so that this procedure works at least 95%!

Sorry but the procedure works flawlessly. Perhaps you should investigate the problems you are having because the steps you have taken are not correct.

If you would have followed the tutorial through completely, you would find out it works perfectly.
Here, look at the following examples, do these look oversaturated to you? No they don't: they are done with this method and there are no exceptions used. It's not 95% working, it's working a 100% and going very strong.
These images are from a building that has 6 floors and contains a whole city block. The model is over 60 million polygons.
I'm pretty sure that if it works for a model THAT big, it will work for your model.

[Exception]

WOW Debil!
Thank you very much for the informations. It realy cleared some thing out!
I have a question: How can I create an effect of direct lightning from the sun on the floors or walls within Lightwave, because I want to have smooth shadows from the sun.It has to be Lightwave not Lightscape!
Cheers!

Perhaps you should follow the tutorial through, it explains everything.

[rainman]

Exception do you mean the baking part?
I dont understand anything now with bumps?!
If I do like debil says they become visible but If I do like you say and put them in color chanel I dont get bump effect. What do you mean by puting them to color chanel? You mean press T on color and put procedural mapping? That only effects colour.
Im counfuzed :confused: :confused:

[Exception]

You asked: "How can I create an effect of direct lightning from the sun on the floors or walls within Lightwave, because I want to have smooth shadows from the sun.It has to be Lightwave not Lightscape!"

this is fully covered in the tutorial.

Regarding bump-maps I will repeat myself here:
Bump maps in Lightwave will NOT render in the diffuse channel using this method UNLESS direct light hits the surfaces from a LightWave light (which is usually not the case). This will therefore almost always either look wrong or they will not show up at all.
Remedies are to use the specularity of a surface to have the bumps show up. Either use a negative specularity for darkening or be happy with the white specularity.
Also you can put the bump map in the color channel and tweak it to your liking. Of course it will look different to bump mapping, but sometimes the difference is hardly visible, such as with stucco, sand and other fine grains.

Using a Distant light which does not cast shadows somewhere will make the bumps show up, correct, but will also invalidate the radiosity solution.

[rainman]

You said using this method. Will there be any other maybe.
So your workflow is to turn off every light in Lw scene, right? I think that this is realy the main questions that has been causing problems :)
Well you said it well, bumps can be faked as you say with specular chanels, but as debil pointed out, you can use distant light and just play with Luminosity and difuse chanel and find the right messure.
For me diffuse abouth 30% and lum 85%, one distant light, works fine. You cannot even see the diference :)
Once again the, baking tutorial? Sorry I hate baking. I leave this to my wife :p

[Exception]

You said using this method. Will there be any other maybe.

It took three quarters of a year of research to make this method. It is pretty much flawless, there is no conceibale way to get AND the radiosity solution of Lightscape in Lightwave AND have bump map control. It is inherent of the whole theoretical approach.

So your workflow is to turn off every light in Lw scene, right?

No, you keep the lights that need to show direct light, like sunlight and so on.
Really, please read the tutorial carefully.

I think that this is realy the main questions that has been causing problems :)

Its all in the tutorials, really...

Well you said it well, bumps can be faked as you say with specular chanels, but as debil pointed out, you can use distant light and just play with Luminosity and difuse chanel and find the right messure.

Go ahead, but expect strange results and no real black.

Once again the, baking tutorial? Sorry I hate baking. I leave this to my wife :p

I'm graduating at the moment, which is somewhat more important.
By the way, Part V of the tutorial deals with baking using surface baker. Are you sure you need Microwave that badly, and can't figure the baking out for yourself?

I will post a text-only description here for all you microwave-wanters that I prepared as a mock up...

[Exception]

This is a mock up of a future tutorial to use microwave from Evasion3d to optimize the lightwave-to-lightscape-to-lightwave tutorials I made, and which can be found here:
http://www.except.nl/Overig/lightscapelightwave.htm

This is what I wrote up for someone else who wanted it... good luck with it : ) If this all is at all usefull to you you might perhaps want to remember the donate button on the tutorial page. Nothing obligatory, but it would really help.

Since Im graduating I don't really have the time to finish the tutorial at this time, so ill just quickly explain it to you. If you have further questions never hesitate to email me, ill be glad to help.


So you've got your color vertex mapped highly tesselated but looking good model in Layout, and you want to make this into a lower poly object where the vertex map is discarded and textures are used instead. This will benefit the following areas:
- Real time application such as Shockwave3D and VRML, much lower poly count
- Editability of the solution, since image maps are much more editable than vertex color maps
- Editability of the mesh, since there are no more excessive polygons
- Organisation, easier to manage materials with image maps

This cannot be done with Surface Baker.
What you do is take the original model that we first had in Lightwave before exporting it to Lightscape. We need to UV map this model properly. Open it in modeler and select the surfaces that you want to have one single texture. Some common sense is usefull here. If you are unfamiliar with UV mapping, there are excellent tutrials out there, but its really quite straightforward. Select the polygons you want to UV map, Make New Map, choose Atlas as a projection method. I always use a huge gap in between the polygons. This will really help later on when 'expanding' the UV map. Also, only create the maps based on surface selection. DO NOT select directly. That will give you lots of trouble later on. so use the polygon statistics panel (w) to select the surfaces per map.
Take notice that every UV mapped polygon that does not directly neighbour an attached polygon can produce nasty black lines when used in VRML for instance (not when rendering in LW). Therefore do not unweld before making the map, but only after making it, so the polygons stay together. Then perhaps organise the map a bit to increase efficiency.
Do this for every set of polygons you feel is handy to have one map. Keep in mind smaller textures are slightly more fficient than larger ones, so prefer 10 2048x2048 textures over 4 4096x4096 for instance. For the test model I think I used 5... ceiling, walls, wooden floor, other floors, chairs and windowframes, stairs.
Oh yes, Microwave doesnt support poly's with more than 4 points, so using the statistics window (w) select all poly's having more than 4 points and triple them. Perhaps use MergeTrigonsX to get them back to quads. Also, make sure there are no 2 point poly's, no crooked geometry and all. so do a unify polygons and delete alone vertices and so forth. Make sure your UV maps are correct and there are no intersecting lines on them (if you have, you need to unweld them poly's in the Uv map).
Once the object is mapped (never mind the material settings, they are irrelevant), save the object as something new, like SimpleHouse_UV.lwo or something.

Now have the scene in which the object resides which resulted from the previous tutorials. Make sure you have your direct lights such as your sun set up properly so that it matches the original position in Lightscape. It doesnt have to be exact, and frankly you can put it anywhere you want, it just sometimes won't look right... up to you. Anyway, you can also have pointlights and other lights added as well.
Also make sure all your materials are the way you want. Depending on what you're going to do with the model after it is baked you might want to considder baking reflections too for small metal objects, such as the frames of the chairs in the tutorial model. If you use it for realtime application, that is what I would do. If you use lightwave to render things, then you can keep the raytraced reflections, and baking reflections is not recommended.
Anyway, if not baking reflections, turn them off in the render options panel. Make sure Shadows are on.

Now yo have a scene which, if rendered from a camera standpoint would see exactly what the baked output will see. We will now use microwave to actually do it.
Save the scene as 'Scene_Microwave.lws' or something, and also save the main objects under a recogniseable name (SimpleHouse_fromLS_Microwave.lwo or something). Now, without closing anything, open the model you saved from modeler (SimpleHouse_UV.lwo) into layout. You will now have two objects in layout that occupy the same space. Go to the object properties of the simplified, uv mapped object and set it to 'Unseen by Rays' and 'Unseen by Camera'. Go tot he object properties of the tesselated model and set it ONLY to 'unseen by camera'.
Now go to the pixel filter plugins dialog (ctrl-F8). Select MicroWave.
As an object you choose the UV mapped object, NOT the object containing the solution! Also select the UV map you wish to bake first.
As a projection type use 'Object' and the direction should be 'To'. Then set a distance of 1 mm or something small. This number will be the tolerance in which MicroWave will allow the distance between the points of the tesselated object and the clean object to be.
Keep the 'Bake Render' option to on.
As a resolution, pick whatever you want. Soemthing like 2048x2048. Make it square of course. Use an expand that is relevant and usefull for the image map. So for 2048x2048 I would expand with 4 pixels. You can turn AA on if you want, but its not as important as in a normal render. I usually do though, as it bakes rather fast anyway. Alpha channel for these maps is useless so choose a 24 bit format like tiff24.
Now set your Image base name, that is recogniseable. Make it the name of the UV map perhaps...
If baking really large textures I would reccomend turning the 'show preview' off. Otherwise it can be fun to watch.
Then, close the microwave panel, and just press F9. You will see nothign in the render window, but the Microwave preview and/or monitor will pop up. Once it is done, the image was saved.
Do this for all the UV maps in the object untill you done them all. Save the scene and objects.
Now save the clean object as 'simplehouse_MWbaked.lwo' or something. Save the scene as 'Simplehouse_MWbakes.lws'. Remove the tesselated object from the scene (yaay), and also all lights. Set the last light to 0.
Now apply each image map that Microwave made that belongs to certain surfaces (see why you should have mapped according to surfaces?) to those surfaces, using UV projection, an dusing the UV map that you used to generate the map in the first place. It should fit perfectly. Do this for all the maps, and voila you're done.

Alternatively, you can even increase efficiency by using lightmaps in combination with the texture maps that were applied. Its roughly the same process though. Ill leave you with this for now, and let me know if you want to know abouyt the lightmaps in time, if you cant figure it out.

Good luck!

[Exception]

This is a compressed overview of the entire worflow, including light-mapping to VRML and so on. Perhaps it will help someone.

[Muad'dib]

Many thanks for the MWwave update Exception ;)

I've been busy on other stuff at this stage and have not had a chance to do justice to your tute/method. From the few goes I've had at it with simplified models / geometry it works like a treat. I will post some images done with your approach as soon as I have something decent and no I won't forget the donate button either. Maybe you can have a beer/dinner on me to celebrate your graduation ;) Good luck with it.

A much appreciative and respectfull,
Muad'dib.

[debil]

Helo!
Sorry for my a lack of control, I realy got frustrated.
I cannot get what you say at all. This has to be a bug in one of the software or my sudden drop of IQ :o . But realy, I have done everything you say. Here are the ScreenShots of object imported in Modeler. As you said I put everything on white and then changed the diff/Lum paramtears. And this is where it gets wrong. If I do what you say 100 and 100, I get oversatureted image. Pictures show the differences. Is this wrong?!
I also attaches a Ls. file like you said. Maybe its realy a bug at my place. When I export from Ls VRML the only ON options where at Convert Textures and InlineNodes.Thats o.k...? Attached are also options when exporting from Accutrans.
Hope this clears what Im doing wrong.
P.s. Whats the trick with 60 milion poly scene. It always chrashed when I had more then 2 milion polys

[rainman]

Ive read the tutorial Exception, but Ray Trace direct Lightning didnt found anywhere?! :confused:

[debil]

Well , you could just use one light and put it outside of your house or walls. Its realy not that hard at all. Just use your brain, and think. Dont be like me :)

[Exception]

Helo!
Sorry for my a lack of control, I realy got frustrated.
I cannot get what you say at all. This has to be a bug in one of the software or my sudden drop of IQ :o . But realy, I have done everything you say. Here are the ScreenShots of object imported in Modeler. As you said I put everything on white and then changed the diff/Lum paramtears. And this is where it gets wrong. If I do what you say 100 and 100, I get oversatureted image. Pictures show the differences. Is this wrong?!


Yes because you are making a screenshot of the OpenGL interface of Lightwave... I mean, you need to render it of course.

[Exception]

Ive read the tutorial Exception, but Ray Trace direct Lightning didnt found anywhere?! :confused:

Uh, make sure Direct Illumination is off for all luminaires before exporting to VRML (and it usually needs a calculation step for each luminiaire to process this), and just raytrace the lights in Lightwave.

[Exception]

Debil, I took a look at your included scene and it is incomplete. without those texture files I can't do anything with it, really.
Also, perhaps it wouldnt be too much trouble to unburden me and attach lwo and lws files? I don't really like converting files that much... : )

[Exception]

Ok, something not so hot in your model:
Your window is not set to 'no mesh', making it needlessly tesselated.

[Exception]

I converted your model, set the diffuse and luminosity on 100%, added a 300% directional light, turned on raytrace shadows and reflection, made the spheres and window glass, changed the background to white.
Looks fine to me!
First image has a bump map applied to all surfaces. You can only see the bumps where the sunlight hits the floor and ball.
Second image has the bump map copy-pasted in the color channel. Looks suitable to me for a wall bump map and so on.
I added to enlargements for your convenience.

So really, I don't see the problem. I sure hope you didn't rely and posted all this because of the Lightwave OpenGL looks, because that's just silly.

[Exception]

I updated the tutorial pages somewhat, its now got the same microwave explanation as in here, as well as some small additions here and there.

[Picajol]

Does this work with Lw 9.2?

[Zneg1]

When I asked Rod Recker (one of the Lightscape founders) about making an LVS/LS plugin he informed me that everything needed is in the SDK which came with the CD I believe. So there you go..Anything and everything needed for an LVS/LS plugin to LW is in the Lightscape SDK.

[archijam]

Exception is currently crossing America (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71344), should be back on the forums in a week or so ...

j.

[Exception]

Should work fine in 9.2.

Zneg1: Yes, but who's going to spend a few months writing such a plugin for such a small user base? It's not going to happen. Also, there already is such a plugin, the functionality of which is somewhat broken, and it looks far from easy to make another one.

My server is still broken. The tutorials will be up ASAP. Sorry.

[Zneg1]

My post is just an FYI. This is partly why I am still using LW 5.6 because I still like LVS and still use it for most renderings.