How do I positionReset a walking cycle in Director. MAX model works but not LW one

[pfash]

I have imported a w3d model with a looped walk cycle (that includes translation) into Director and with lingo and 3dpi put the model's positionReset to false. (I can confirm with message window and see in 3dpi that the positionreset has changed but the model keeps looping back to the same place in my world.) lockTranslation is #none. I tried using different lightwave models with different types of translation.

I have imported a MAX model that has a looped walk cycle (that includes translation) and I can positionReset it successfully.

Ideas?

ps. I notice that with the Lightwave model, when I look at it with 3dpi, it shows no bonesplayer modifier attached but the model position is changing (with the translation) and the shockwave viewer shows it moving. So I tried removing and then adding the bonesPlayer modifier back again (with lingo and 3dpi) but the positionReset to false still does not stop the looping of the model's place.

Thanks muchly,
Paul

[pfash]

MAX model set up with bones will by default have the #bonesplayer modifier when exported as w3d and it can be controlled via that. A Lightwave model, set up and animated with bones, can only be controlled via the #keyframePlayer once in Director...not sure what this means for the success of the rest of my project. (In general there seems to be lots of weaknesses in the Lightwave Shockwave exporter..lots that need fixing for next release.)

Anyway wanted to send this out in case anyone else runs into a similar problem...and of course, feel free to let me know if my conclusions are wrong.

[Sam_Horton]

All lightwave models, when exported, get the keyframeplayer modifier added to them regardless of wether they have keyframe animations associated w/ them or not. This is due to the fact that all lightwave scenes require at least a single keyframe for everything at the first frame -unless of course you want everything positioned and rotated at 0,0,0. In max you don't do any animating until you hit that big "animate" button, thus keeping unnecessary keyframes out of the picture.

There are other problems associated with this issue as well and often times to get a lightwave exported scene to work properly you must remove the keyframeplayer modifier form all of the models using the "removeModifier" function in Director. The keyframePlayer modifier drastically slows down functions like "modelsUnderRay" and "modelUnderLoc" which are often nescessary if you wish to add mouse interaction to your scene.

The Lightwave exporter definitely works and can get the job done, but will usually take some digging around because some things are just not as straight forward as the max exporter.

[pfash]

Thanks for the info Sam. I finally got through to the Lightwave tech support (very madening to have to wait on hold with a "...will answer in the order rec." message for 15 min and then be told by the machine that there is no one available goodbye...and to have to pay for that call) and the tech support person said he did not know about the extra keyframe modifier issue....nor did he know when the exporter would be updated. I lodged a complaint/request...who knows if it will get passed along.

Others on my Director list have been having other problems with the LW exporter (bones) and recommended looking into other programs that will take a LW model and create a w3d of it. You know of any? (Cheap?....I can't afford another huge software purchase)
Thanks again

[wowens]

Keyframe Magazine published an article in their Nov/Dec 2001 issue (#25) covering the Shockwave plug-in. The article was written by Dave Wolfe and gives a good overview of the process. The Keyframe Magazine Web site (www.keyframemag.com) provides the files mentioned in the article.

I would also check out D-Storm's "BakeIKtoKey" plug-in. It seemed to solve my crashing on export problem. However, I'm still having a slight problem with the rotation of the right foot.

Any additional information on the Shockwave plug-in would be greatly appreciated.

[pfash]

thanks wowens for the info.

I am going out of town for a few days and after I return I will post here the few recommendations (regarding using the Lightwave Shockwave exporter for Director movies) that I have gleaned from other LW users on my Director listserv.

Sounds like a good idea to get all the info about bugs and work-arounds (and other options for creating w3d files) in one place.

BTW: I finally got ahold of LW tech support: They do not know of any plans to update the 1.1 version of the exporter that came out Dec 20, 2001
Paul

[pfash]

Following, from various list postings, are problems, resources and some workarounds regarding the Lightwave W3D Exporter. Feel free to add your tips to this list (and/or email them to me: director@mentoringnetwork.org)
-Paul
************************************************** *********
PROBLEMS:
We had to downgrade to the old Newtek exporter for a recent project -
Bones just aren't doable with the new one.
--al
___________________________________
MAX model set up with bones will by default have the #bonesplayer modifier
when exported as w3d and it can be controlled via that. A Lightwave model,
set up and animated with bones, can only be controlled via the
#keyframePlayer once in Director
-Paul
___________________________________
fwiw- I have not been to happy with the LW exporter for anything complex.
(multiple keyframe animations for example). The exporter often chokes and
hangs the app, or the .w3D result is nothing like it should be. Maybe its
me (new at 3D modeling) or maybe its that I use a Mac but its seems like a
very weak implementation of .w3d export- and it hasn't been updated in a
very long time.
___________________________________
My coworker which ,are using Lightwave 3D, are suddenly having real trouble exporting a character bone-animation to me (the lingo programmer). Evidently everything is animated fine in Lighwave, BUT when exported some bones seem to lose their parents, or just animated in random directions....??
I just wanted to know if there are anyone else out there that has experienced problems when exporting a animated scene from lightwave to shockwave 3d (parenting and bones)
-magnus
___________________________________
I've encountered lots of problems with various aspects of the Lightwave 3D
>exporter, and am still getting a random 90 degree rotation occuring
>occassionaly which I've not been able to rectify so far.
-Naomi
___________________________________
1. FIX THE BONES, PLEASE FIX THE BONES!!!!!
This is the single greatest problem I have come across. It has prevented me from completing countless projects, and forced me to use other 3d apps like MAX which is very painful. As far as I can tell the rotation values in director and lightwave must be different because my animations don't even come close to matching up. If nothing else gets corrected please, at least look into this problem.
2. Scale issues
Lightwave exports are exactly 100 times larger than what they should be. You have to work in centimeters as opposed to meters to correct this but that's just too small sometimes.
3. No user data
For game development it is critical for the artist to be able to tag models w/ custom game engine specific data. We need the ability to input text info for each model in LW. We use this in MAX all the time and it helps a boat load.
-Sam

************************************************** *********
TIPS:
To set up characters with bones to work best in Director: import model into the layout, convert to bones, set subdivide order to "afterbones" (obj tab)
___________________________________
Bones: the key is that every point in a model that uses bones nust be
assigned to a weight map. Each point must be assigned to only one weight
map. Then each bone must be assigned to a weight map with Use Weight Map
Only selected and Weight Normalization not selected. I have fudged this
rule once or twice and had success, but usually the model will not export
unless these guidlines are followed. You cannot parent to a bone.

IK is not supported, but you can use Motion Baker to freeze IK into
keyframe animation. Only Keyframe and Bone animation will export.

In the graph editor hitting repeat at the end of an envelope will cause
the animation to loop properly. Useful for fish swimming, any Cycling
animation, etc. Other motion modifiers may , work and be converted to
ketframe animation when exporting, but I am not sure.
The exporter doesnt do a very good job exporting more than one object with bone animation from a single scene ( it seems to do fine with multiple keyframe animation, though). Sometimes it works, but usually not. The thing to do is set up a scene with just your boned character then export it separately from the main scene. Then with Lingo clone that model and place it into the main 3D scene member.
___________________________________

1) have each of the motions and models in sepearate w3d members, then import
each into the scene separately (#cloneModelFromCastMember,
#cloneMotionFromCastMember).

2) Remove the bonesplayer modifier from your model once imported and then
add it again and queue up the motion

3) Sometimes, playing a motion through, adding it to the playlist again, and
then doing #playNext helps.
___________________________________
1) I posted a while back asking about a problem with getting bonesplayer to work. The problem turned out to be that I had "enableAnimation" property set to false in the 3D sprite. When I set it to "true" everything worked fine. Something to watch out for (for newbies like me, anyway, who didn't know about that property).

************************************************** *********
ALTERNATIVES:
The guys doing the 3D end for a project I'm lingo-ing are using LW and then Deep Exploration for the .w3D creation. I think they mentioned that the DE demo allowed .w3d export and they had not actually bought it yet.
-Richard.
___________________________________
I've been looking at Cinema4d 8 and many things are so much easier- or just
work- when exporting.

************************************************** *********
RESOURCES:
maybe not the best person to send stuff to but Chuck Baker is a top bloke: chuck_baker@newtek.com and I am sure that he'll point you in the right direction
___________________________________
http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/5941.html?996250565
___________________________________
Keyframe Magazine published an article in their Nov/Dec 2001 issue (#25) covering the Shockwave plug-in. The article was written by Dave Wolfe and gives a good overview of the process. The Keyframe Magazine Web site (www.keyframemag.com) provides the files mentioned in the article.
___________________________________
I would also check out D-Storm's "BakeIKtoKey" plug-in. It seemed to solve my crashing on export problem. However, I'm still having a slight problem with the rotation of the right foot.

[lw_lock]

hi pfash,

i got the similar problem as u encountered. i am newbie too.
i discovered that i cannot use positionReset=FALSE to offset the walk cycle which include translation. i have a biped skelegon set, the translation is based on a root bone however the object attached have it's pivot point stay original. I use clonemotionfromcastmember to get the motions to the main model with the only motion .w3d exported from lw. i failed to offset the walk cycle in this situation. i dont mind use both bonesplayer and keyframeplayer at the same time to do this. but i am really looking for a efficient solution to that as i know this can work for other 3d app.

[Sam_Horton]

There is also a "lockTranslation" feature which might be what you are looking for if you want to move your model w/ code instead.

model.bonesPlayer.lockTranslation = true

[lw_lock]

i cant do that even i have put locktranslation=#all

i have a stupid question to ask for confirmation
in layout, the walk cycle is all made by bone
the object's pivot point without any translation
that means only bone's channels have movement
any problem?

when i import those motion data into director
i set
obj.bonesplayer.play("walkcycle",0,0,-1,1)
obj.bonesplayer.locktranslation=#all
obj.bonesplayer.positionReset=FALSE

however, the second loop is started from starting point
not the finished point

i have the book "director 8.5 shockwave studio for 3d"
the orange one, i have seen one example from the book
the model figure with "walk" motion only involve bonesplayer
but it can do it
now i am very confusing what i done wrong:confused:

[pfash]

The walking man example in the director 8.5 schockwave studio book is a MAX walking animation model. Apparently, MAX walk animations are exported with only a bonesplayer modifier. Lightwave walk animations will have a KEYFRAME modifier also. That KEYFRAME modifier is what I had to control (turn on or off in Director) to control whether the model walks across the screen or not: translation. (the bonesplayer modifier will controll just the bones movement: the walking movement.)
Paul