Now that you saw SE what did you think?

[Bobt]

I attended the Chicago show. But wanted to know
what you tought?:D

[Dillon]

Bob,

With all due respect, and I know you've coded some killer plugins for the toaster ... but ...

SPILL IT!

Cordially,

Dillon Thomas

[Keith Nealy]

Nobodies talkin' Bob, so what did you think?

Frankly, I don't get the silence.

Keith

[cholo]

I find it disturbing. (the silence that is)

[Bobt]

Look I hang with this all the time. My life and my buis kind of depends on
this thing. So I want to hear what others that went or watched have to
say. If no one answers I will chime in tonight. On my way to work.
I think they will have an online stream of the show today. Not sure though.

Bob

[wvp]

Well Bob, the fact NO ONE has posted a SINGLE THING about the SpeedEdit launch tells me that it really is not worth talking about. If I was you, I'd start looking for other ways to make money.

[Jim_C]

Since it is still at that stage, maybe by viewing the product they became honorary Beta members and are now bound by the NDA...?

:D


Or maybe it's just that not that many seasoned VT user/forums readers went.

I don't remember seeing many, if any, posts ie "I'm going to the Launch, who else is?"

[Terrence]

I didn't go, i planned on the LA show but flaked out.

I saw it at NAB, i want to use it not look at it!

I would watch from a stream tho.

I would also like to say i pre purchased a long long time ago.

As per everyone winning on the board, Call newtek back i am sure they will refund you.

If you didn't pay them then just SHUT UP AND wait like the rest of US.
I say this with all the love in the world and wanting speededit/vt5 just like u.

This is one Fact i know "IT WILL COME OUT WHEN IT COMES OUT".
Peace Love and Respect ALI G

In conclusion i don't think anyone went!

Like Master Yoda Eugen Said it was a launch not a release.

PS Bob am i going to be able to take my plug-in suite of yours to speededit?

[kleima]

OK, so I used the word "release" rather than "launch." But, one would assume that they would not launch if they were not ready to release, otherwise they could have gone ahead with the "launch" that was scheduled in October. Like you say, I want to use the product, not look at it! The reason they postponed the October launch, is because the product was not ready! I think that launch and release are essentially the same thing. Now, maybe it didn't start shipping yesterday, but if they don't start shipping in the next week or so I will be shocked.

[Safe Harbor]

We hosted the Chicago event and SpeedEDIT looks like all they've been promising. Everyone who purchased it last night could not believe how much faster the editing process is compared to the software they have been using (which shall remain nameless).

I think SE is going to be HUGE, and as typical of NewTek, will transform the way people do things. But - NT needs to keep PUSHING it, don't let up once it's released. Keep the cheerleaders cheering, keep the band playing, keep advertising... and put a downloadable DEMO on the website!!!! :hey:

[jedbarish]

I noticed that NT is not revealing enough information about multiple formats being compatible. I posted twice about SE accept using .mxf from P2 using DVCPRO HD. No one from NT or anyone could verify it. Hope someone saw the list during the launch party!

[robewil]

I suspect most of those who attended already have a VT system and are already familiar with the prior release of SpeedEdit (VT-Edit). Much of the wow factors of SpeedEdit are its speed, flexibility, and ability to use a timeline and storyboard simultaneously. Well, we are already used to that so I am guessing that's why there's not a lot of hoopla.

I'd be more interested in what a non-VT users opinion would be.

[jimtruelove]

I went to the LA demonstration and found a small turnout there. The room was quite small compared to most Newtek show standards. There were approx 30 people. The DV expo was held that day a few miles away and I guess I was expecting to see more people.
The Product was quick and basically what has been advertised. The layout reminds me a bit like the Tricaster pro edit page. The editor is much more robust than Tricaster don't get me wrong.
As a long time user of VT systems there was really nothing suprising or new! The speed that they advertise is basically the ability to drop any standard (NTSC, PAL) at any resolution and edit realtime (with background rendering) and that is no small feet. This can be done on many packages that edit and are shipping but rendering is not a background or realtime option for them. Of course Newtek has been able to mix many types of standard video on the timeline for ages now. I took a Tricaster Pro and dropped HDV material on the timeline and it was usable mixed against the SD material that was already there in real time and that product is already shipping
The tool shed seems to have a few additions but I keep waiting for more ! I keep thinking of how Aussi added so much to the original Toaster, it just does not seem like that side is making much headway.
Audio is said to be able to handle 5:1 surround. I missed that part of the demo or something. All I saw was the standard 4 channel audio meters on the interface. They showed off the same basic audio filtering as VT has. When can we use all the Direct X plugs that make other packages soo appealing.
For those with Tricasters I really think you should line up to add this to your editing arsenal. I know evertime I have to edit on a Tricaster I miss some of the more basic tools from my VT systems.
Response at the show was up but not a slam dunk. Slow ship date, no batch capture in initial release, no heavy audio tools, integration of the CG seemed lacking to me ( too much like the Tricaster ) The VT version of CG is not perfect but somehow it seemed more powerful as an integrated separately run program with easily viewed templates. Since no Aura is included in SpeedEDIT a more robust CG is really needed. There are too many other really good CG packages on Mac based machines that really draw editors into using less realtime packages.
One guy at the show kept asking - "will SpeedEDIT up-res SD video on output?" No! Speed EDIT output at the Res you set the project at. If material is smaller than the Res of the product ( HD Project with some SD material ) the SD material will show as letter boxed. Lots Project Resolutions available and lots of Output Resolutions available to render to.
What are Newteks plans for Vista support or will Linux ever be an option ?
As far as SpeedEDIT will there ever be a Mac version ?
Good Product for Noobs and small studios. I do not see this landing in the major studios must have product lists.
Not much of a review but then again I don't write for a living (good thing Huh)

[mgrusin]

I know two entry-level editors who've been very frustrated with Pinnacle, etc. because of inflexibility and instability (one bought a Dell "all set up for video editing"; nothing works right and support is useless). SE is a bit above their price range but if it's as good as it sounds I'm hoping I can sell them on it.

[John Perkins]

I noticed that NT is not revealing enough information about multiple formats being compatible. I posted twice about SE accept using .mxf from P2 using DVCPRO HD. No one from NT or anyone could verify it. Hope someone saw the list during the launch party!

It's a long complex list, but you are right, we do need to compile the list.

DVCPro50 is included for avi, mov and raw formats in SE 1.0. MXF and DVCProHD won't be in 1.0, but they are pretty far along in development.

They will be included in a future release, but I'm not in marketing, so I'm not sure how licensing of the codecs will be handled, i.e. paid upgrade, codec pack, etc.

[John Perkins]

One guy at the show kept asking - "will SpeedEDIT up-res SD video on output?" No! Speed EDIT output at the Res you set the project at. If material is smaller than the Res of the product ( HD Project with some SD material ) the SD material will show as letter boxed.

I'm not sure how the question was asked at the show, but we can certainly do a good job of converting both up and down.

The up and down conversion is seamless.

If you have an HD res show, you can either render to an HD size file, or render to and SD file.

If you have a 4:3 SD project you can still render to HD and you have the option of pillar boxing, stretching (eew) or cropping to fit a 16:9 HD resolution.

By default it will letterbox or pillar box as needed since this is the least problematic. We don't want to crop out something you wanted onscreen without the editor explicitly asking for it.

In short, YES! it will upconvert and it does an excellent job of scaling when it does. ;)

[badllarma]

So John when will the ones who have paid for the VT 5.0 upgrade get there copies to play with :thumbsup:

[Terrence]

theirs a good question

[John Perkins]

I honestly can't say, but if you notice the time that this message was posted, you can tell that we are doing everything we can to get it to you ASAP.

We are testing final versions, but just as soon as we can get it out the door we will.

I think that the delay was 100% worth it. The added features (thanks to our beta testers suggestions) and extra testing time are really paying off. :thumbsup:

[deandec]

Went to the NYC event. About 30-40 people. As a VT3 user SE is evolution not revolution. For $495 it's a good looking software editor. It's seems like an uphill battle against FCP and Premiere though. I imagine SE will be fighting in the trenches with Vegas. I'm at a crossroads deciding whether to keep the Toaster or jump ship and get a Decklink card. I don't work very often with Firewire based video. It's almost always uncompressed since our work is compositing and 3d animation. As a product SE looks good but I certainly wasn't as impressed as the first time I saw VT2. I wanted to be.

The 3d arsenal demo was kind of lame. A bunch of canned Lightwave effects that are supposed to be easy. The demo guy had to keep going back and forth between the modeler and layout because he'd forgotten to save something with some parameter or other. Certainly didn't make it look easy! Also how many people are going to want to have the same chrome logo appearing from behind a spinning earth? If that is their reply to Motion they lost that one big time.

There was an abundance of good kosher food which was nice........

[wvp]

...The added features (thanks to our beta testers suggestions) and extra testing time are really paying off. :thumbsup:
So what are the "added features", for that matter can you tell us what other improvments have been made? (Besides the obvious frame rate/rez ind. editing, etc)

[Safe Harbor]

I'm at a crossroads deciding whether to keep the Toaster or jump ship and get a Decklink card. I don't work very often with Firewire based video. It's almost always uncompressed since our work is compositing and 3d animation.

Seriously, look at AJA before you look at Decklink (support is a BIG issue here, not to mention features...). If you have specific questions I can get our AJA specialist on the phone for you...

[kleima]

Paul just posted this link on the other SE thread. It may answer some questions.

http://www.newtek.com/speededit/features.php

[sbrandt]

The comments over at the Serious Magic forum are along the lines that for the same price they can have Avid Liquid with mature audio and dvd tools.
They see it as SE offering raw speed and not much else.

[tmon]

"Mature Audio and DVD tools" notwithstanding, AVID lovers/sympathizers would no doubt downplay raw speed, perhaps because that's a disadvantage that AVID has always championed....

;)

[kleima]

Would that be your assesment of a Ferrari? Offering raw speed, and not much else?

[steveg]

Currently there is no Speed Edit to choose from with NewTek continuing to say "soon" with no real timeframe promised at all, and there is an Avid. So, how do you choose from something or nothing. NewTek never seems to chime in to let us know what is going on any more until a few of us quit and go somewhere else any way. So go ahead and buy the Avid so NewTek will loose some more customers and then tell us where they are for real instead of expecting us to put our businesses on hold until they are ready to say something. From what I have heard, Speed Edit has the same features it was shown to have at NAB. and here it is 15 days from December, and we still don't hear "next Month" we still hear "soon". My clients expected me to be editing HD way before now. I've been shooting it since last March. It reflects on my lack of wisdom to keep telling them maybe next month, but soon for sure. I am getting a lot of pressure from them to switch to any other editing system that already has HD. Even they know about all the others are available. Before Christmas I have to start delivering HD one way or the other.

[UnCommonGrafx]

Thank you for the clarification, Kleima.

Suffice it to say, a 1975 Ferrari, yes; a 2006 one, no. Nakamichi, at the least, and AC would be necessities. Still need a great suspension to handle all that speed. To augment the ride and enhance it. Speed, alone, kills.

He1l, even Porshe's going to a four door. And water cooling.

Car analogies are so fun. .

Would that be your assesment of a Ferrari? Offering raw speed, and not much else?

[ScorpioProd]

Before Christmas I have to start delivering HD one way or the other.

Well, with HDV capable NLEs costing only a couple hundred dollars, is this really that big a deal anymore?

More importantly, there are fully functional 30-day time limited HDV capable demos from GV EDIUS 4 and Sony Vegas 7 just waiting for you to give them a try.

That's exactly what I've done in the past few months. I needed to do a real HDV project this August, so I downloaded EDIUS 4 and did it. It honestly wasn't that hard to learn and it worked great.

Same thing with when I needed to do a real HDV project this month. I downloaded Vegas 7 and did it on that. It wasn't hard to learn either and it worked great.

Once you know any NLE, it's really not that hard to learn any other one to do all the basics in just a day or two.

And really, it will give you a much better perspective on what is out there if you actually try using other programs to do real work.

It's worth it, for comparison, if for nothing else.

[KSTAR]

. From what I have heard, Speed Edit has the same features it was shown to have at NAB.

Who did you hear this from Newtek?

[ScorpioProd]

Anyone who wants to see the SpeedEDIT feature set only needs to go to Newtek's website to see it. It was updated this week.

[John Perkins]

As long as it is, that's still pretty incomplete. :(

It's got a ton of features, so it's hard to list.

I've been on SE for a while now, so I hope I don't take anything for granted...

VT owners will notice:

New Output window - Keeps correct aspect ratio, no more stretching. Should also not have tearing due to monitor refresh.
Output has selectable 25, 50, 100, 200% modes for pixel exact previews
Output has defielded, fielded and one field modes
Output has selectable action safe, title safe and center cross markings.
Realtime 1394 DV and HDV preview - pass through your HDV camera/deck to an HD monitor. A NewTek first ;)
3 wheel color correction
4 selective color correctors
Color correctors can use adjustable waveform monitors or vectorscopes, not just colorwheels - grab the vectorscope itself and make it look right
Voice over - record audio directly into the timeline while playing the project
Seamless import/export of many Quicktime formats - For instance, DV and DVCPro50 FCP clips can be used as easily as DV AVIs.
DV Print to tape from the timeline
Send to tape from filebins - Select a clip, sned directly to DV or HDV
MPEG is both an input and output format
SpeedHQ codec - A lot like NT25 with an alpha channel, plus speed and quality improvements
Ease In/Ease Out for splines in the control tree
User definable project presets - If you edit at 1024x768, 16:10, 60fps, etc. you can make your own preset
Rendering presets - Most common ones are already created, but you can load and save your own. No more setting each parameter for every render.
True aspect ratio support - auto-selects the correct aspect ratio so that you can mix and match clips without adjusting every one by hand.
Reads timecode from clips that support it, such as DV and HDV. Even if you didn't capture it in SE.
You can now render a single still of the current timeline position
Capture can autochop based on the timecode
Background rendering is improved and smarter - no more cryptic preferences
Background rendering progress indicators, both for the overall project and per clip so that you know which areas need to render and what the status is

Like I said, there are a LOT of changes and I'm sure that I'm taking many for granted. This was just off the top of my head.

There are a lot of workflow changes will make a big difference in use, but don't come across as features. After using SE, you will notice that there were nagging things in VT that you probably didn't realize could be improved.

[kleima]

Thanks John! That is an awesome list.
One question about the list: you said MPEG is an I/O format - MPEG what, MPEG2!? (I'm being hopeful.)

One question not from the list: If I have captured a bunch of HDV footage using HD Connect will my clips be recognized in HDV on the SE timeline? (They work currently in VT[4] as scaled clips.) Would I loose any functionality by capturing ahead of time with HD Connect rather than waiting and capturing with SE?

[John Perkins]

Thanks ;)

I tried to list things I didn't remember seeing in the "official" list and give a few comments about them.

MPEG means, MPEG1,2 and 4. They can be in most formats, including transport streams that are produced by HDV cameras.

I'm not that familiar with HD Connect, but if it's a regular m2t then it will certainly work without conversion and will use the embedded timecode.

[Demon8]

Thanks John for the list, my question will SE support track mattes and can we go from SE's timeline to AE's timeline?

[John Perkins]

1.0 does not support track mattes. We've been discussing this as a possibility in a future version because it has been highly suggested.

I'm not sure what you mean about AE, but we have no special integration with that application.

We read and write most formats, so getting footage from one app to another shouldn't a problem.

[badllarma]

Hi John,
Any plans to be able to use After Effects plugins within SpeedEdit at any future release??

[John Perkins]

That's an extremely hard thing to do.

Even companies that have been refining their AE plugin host capabilities for years have marginal success. Not all of the plugins work, or with limited capabilities, etc.

I can't say that we want to undertake this unless something changes pretty drastically. As it stands, it's almost like trying to duplicate AE and make it binary compatible.

I'm sure that we would rather put our effort into improving our SDK for better third party support and trying to lessen the need to use AE to begin with.

[Keith Nealy]

Thanks for the list John, it goes a long way in helping us realize that something was actually done to make SE more professional.

Question: In the past our transport to AE was aided by the fact that we could use rtv's in AE, is that still possibility so we don't have to render everything we want to modify to an intermediate format?

Aloha,

Keith

[Videonut]

John,

What is the workflow going to be from SpeedEdit to the DVD Mpeg2 format. Currently with the DVD rendering done through a third party, will SpeedEdit utilize its own encoding or rendering right from the timeline like what Vegas and Premeire Pro utilizes or am I not understanding what you say.

[John Perkins]

The RTV plugin for AE is a good question. There is no reason that the same plugin won't work, but we are trying to get away from our own proprietary formats.

RTV has a lot of drawbacks these days compared to other standard formats. At the time it made sense, but now it's pretty dated. For example, it can't handle higher than SD resolutions.

With all of the other formats that we read and write, one of them should be able to fill the need without resorting to writing plugins for every app out there.

For DVD you can either use an external encoder such as TMPG or you can use the MPEG render directly from SpeedEDIT.

Since almost all of the current I/O formats are MPEG based, reading and writing MPEG was a high priority.

[Paul Lara]

In the past our transport to AE was aided by the fact that we could use rtv's in AE, is that still possibility so we don't have to render everything we want to modify to an intermediate format?

Yes, Keith, SpeedEDIT has full RTV read/write support.

[cholo]

Everything that's been mentioned sounds awesome. I'm particularly impressed with the timecode support in DV/HDV clips. This means there should be an easy way to capture HDV original material downconverted to DV in camera or deck to edit in a computer that's not up to speed to edit HD natively, and once the edit is finished you could recapture in full HDV and render out full HD quality.

Am I correct in this assumption?

[John Perkins]

HDV and DV are the same datarate, so disk space/disk bandwidth shouldn't be an issue.

IMHO, I'd just edit in HDV and be done with it. At worst, you can make the output window less than 50% size and it will respond roughly like it's editing an SD project.

50% of 1080i is still an SD res preview, so it's not a huge problem.

[kleima]

John,

That is awesome that it does MPEG2! You have no idea how much easier that will make my life!

As far as HD Connect, the files are actually HD avi's. Windows Media Player plays them at HD res.

[Seattle-HotShot]

Re: the realtime HDV and DV output for preview... yipee :)

Anyone who can confirm, this is going to just kill me... I have a Sony DVMC-DA1 that does DV in and DV out, I use it with Premiere 6.0 to preview my edits on my TV, etc. That should still work with SE for DV right?

Just strikes me as funny, because I almost sold it when I first got my VT2, and then had to dig it out a couple of times when I sent the VT2 back to the mothership for some quality time. Just going to be sweet if I can use it with SE now.

Also cool to hear that SE can read time codes in DV and HDV clips.

Not excited about the wait since June, but feeling better about getting to use it soon!
Carlin

[John Perkins]

Yep, the one next to my desk works just fine with SE. :thumbsup:

[Randall Chesbro]

If your moving to other formats would that open up the possibility to get it to work with standard audio plugins and fx plugins that I hear are standard in the other editors?

[Seattle-HotShot]

Thanks John, Whew!
And to think I almost sold that little guy a couple of years ago!

[Videonut]

Output has defielded, fielded and one field modes

Does that mean that you can edit 24P files on the timeline?

HDV and DV are the same datarate, so disk space/disk bandwidth shouldn't be an issue.

The datarates that these formats have are very close to the Sony XDCAM HD cameras, so will they be supported?

Last but not least, there has not been much said about the CG. I assume that it will be similar to what is in the VT4.6 platform or is it a new flavor? Would there be any plans to use a 3rd party CG program such as Boris to be used as a plugin? Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

[THREEL]

I know two entry-level editors who've been very frustrated with Pinnacle, etc. because of inflexibility and instability (one bought a Dell "all set up for video editing"; nothing works right and support is useless). SE is a bit above their price range but if it's as good as it sounds I'm hoping I can sell them on it.

Make that 3!!! I use Pinnacle Studio Plus v10.7, now, and I've been very disappointed with the stability of it. You think that things would get better with all of the updates that they've done to it. I know it's lower end stuff, but you go with what you can afford. All of the bells and whistles on it looked cool at the time, but if the chain comes off every time you try to pedal it down the road, all of the bells and whistles are useless garbage.

That's why SE could be of interest to me, but it has to be priced right, and it has to work right, and be stable. I don't want to by any more software, until I can see it and taste it for myself first, and I'm 4 hours away from the closest "launch" party.

tHREEL

[Randall Chesbro]

If your moving to other formats would that open up the possibility to get it to work with standard audio plugins and fx plugins that I hear are standard in the other editors?
?

[John Perkins]

Does that mean that you can edit 24P files on the timeline?



Yes, but it's smart enough to show progressive even in a fielded output window. There is more to a progressive project than just showing it, lots of details in the rendering.


The datarates that these formats have are very close to the Sony XDCAM HD cameras, so will they be supported?


Not initially (1.0), but that is planned.


Last but not least, there has not been much said about the CG. I assume that it will be similar to what is in the VT4.6 platform or is it a new flavor? Would there be any plans to use a 3rd party CG program such as Boris to be used as a plugin? Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

Similar to 4.6

That's really up to Boris, not us. ;)

You can import files with alpha that the stand alone Boris exports though.

[vtlipera]

It's not clear to me that SE will handle the P2 HD from the Panasonic AGHVX200.Will it?

[ted]

It's not clear to me that SE will handle the P2 HD from the Panasonic AGHVX200.Will it?

Unfortunately NO. Not in 1.0. I am told it will be soon to come. What does "soon" mean????

This is really too bad since there are a lot of people with this camera and renting it that are asking for an option other then FCP, AVID or EDIUS.
This would have immediately exposed SE to a totally different market other then current VT owners.
I do however understand that you gotta get a product out to make revenue to further develop that product.

So as much as this hurt my situation, I'm giving NewTek a pass. But only for a little longer! :confused:

[ScorpioProd]

Same with XDCAM HD support.

But SpeedEDIT is a 1.0, it can't do everything initially.

[Mike Maier]

As long as it is, that's still pretty incomplete. :(

It's got a ton of features, so it's hard to list.

I've been on SE for a while now, so I hope I don't take anything for granted...

VT owners will notice:

New Output window - Keeps correct aspect ratio, no more stretching. Should also not have tearing due to monitor refresh.
Output has selectable 25, 50, 100, 200% modes for pixel exact previews
Output has defielded, fielded and one field modes
Output has selectable action safe, title safe and center cross markings.
Realtime 1394 DV and HDV preview - pass through your HDV camera/deck to an HD monitor. A NewTek first ;)
3 wheel color correction
4 selective color correctors
Color correctors can use adjustable waveform monitors or vectorscopes, not just colorwheels - grab the vectorscope itself and make it look right
Voice over - record audio directly into the timeline while playing the project
Seamless import/export of many Quicktime formats - For instance, DV and DVCPro50 FCP clips can be used as easily as DV AVIs.
DV Print to tape from the timeline
Send to tape from filebins - Select a clip, sned directly to DV or HDV
MPEG is both an input and output format
SpeedHQ codec - A lot like NT25 with an alpha channel, plus speed and quality improvements
Ease In/Ease Out for splines in the control tree
User definable project presets - If you edit at 1024x768, 16:10, 60fps, etc. you can make your own preset
Rendering presets - Most common ones are already created, but you can load and save your own. No more setting each parameter for every render.
True aspect ratio support - auto-selects the correct aspect ratio so that you can mix and match clips without adjusting every one by hand.
Reads timecode from clips that support it, such as DV and HDV. Even if you didn't capture it in SE.
You can now render a single still of the current timeline position
Capture can autochop based on the timecode
Background rendering is improved and smarter - no more cryptic preferences
Background rendering progress indicators, both for the overall project and per clip so that you know which areas need to render and what the status is

Like I said, there are a LOT of changes and I'm sure that I'm taking many for granted. This was just off the top of my head.

There are a lot of workflow changes will make a big difference in use, but don't come across as features. After using SE, you will notice that there were nagging things in VT that you probably didn't realize could be improved.

The list looks really good.
Will I be able to export my HDV project as a TGA sequence?
How about Uncompressed HD editing capabilities.
Is there a decent titling tool?
How about audio? Any word on the audio capabilities? Is 5.1 supported?
I'm hoping this thing will be actually good. I have been waiting for the longest time for a PC application that can rival FCP. Every new NLE that came upon us got me excited and hoping it would the FCP of the Windows world but I got disappointed. I hope SE will at least be more than the others were.

[Demon8]

The list looks really good.
Will I be able to export my HDV project as a TGA sequence?
How about Uncompressed HD editing capabilities.
Is there a decent titling tool?
How about audio? Any word on the audio capabilities? Is 5.1 supported?
I'm hoping this thing will be actually good. I have been waiting for the longest time for a PC application that can rival FCP. Every new NLE that came upon us got me excited and hoping it would the FCP of the Windows world but I got disappointed. I hope SE will at least be more than the others were.


I would hope that you woud have tried Adobe Premiere Pro, it's FCP for PC. The biggest thing in the two is LIVE TYPE, but since I am an original owner of INDIA TITLER PRO 1.0; I have the same capabilities in PPRo as FCP users have. If fact since I put bootcamp on my Mac, I've only used FCP once or twice in the last three months. I loaded my Adobe Production Studio on my Mac. Aside of using VT4; FCP is something I go to every once in a while. So don't under-estimate Premiere Pro, it's always a click away.

[inquisitive]

I attended the SF event, there were about 15people there. It seemed most were already owners of VT, with a couple that were not.

I think i learned more from other owners as to how they use their current VT4 setup than what SE does that VT4.6 doesn't (other than the HD ability and some cool toolshed motion removal process.)

I think for new users it may be a great buy, but for us existing VT4.x owners it seems we are already using the fastest editor, and if we dont need HD then there doesnt seem to be a reason to upgrade.

I am sure that is not the case, but that is what I got out of that presentation.

I think future presentations should show what is new for existing users, get them excited and then the new users will be excited to jump in the wagon.

Which reminds me, will there be a fix for vt4.x users to use QT7?


Thanks for the cool tshirt though.

[ScorpioProd]

Well, but I think you need to realize that SpeedEDIT has to be marketed mainly at new users if Newtek is gonna make real money on it.

Users of VT[4] are spoiled by what we already have in VT-EDIT, so being that SpeedEDIT is a stand-alone version of VT-EDIT with new features, it's not like there are going to be that many killer features for existing VT-EDIT users. Remember how VT users kept clamoring for a stand-alone version of VT-EDIT that could be used on a laptop? Well, here it is.

And remember the poll in the Spring? The number one feature request, by a large margin, was resolution and frame rate independance, and that's what SpeedEDIT has.

I'm also quite happy for little things like independant L/R audio waveforms!

BTW, this is the second place I've read people commenting on the toolshed motion removal process... Well... That's been there since VT[4]. Nothing new about that.

As for the QT 7 fix, that's a VT hardware driver issue, so I would expect that to be fixed in VT[5]. SpeedEDIT doesn't use the VT hardware, so it's not connected to that fix.

As for SpeedEDIT being the FCP of Windows, I think it's a bit early for that assessment. Again, this is a 1.0 product, remember. But I bet it will be much faster than FCP for bread and butter work in DV and HDV. :thumbsup:

[Mike Maier]

As for SpeedEDIT being the FCP of Windows, I think it's a bit early for that assessment. Again, this is a 1.0 product, remember. But I bet it will be much faster than FCP for bread and butter work in DV and HDV. :thumbsup:

Well, even Pinnacle Studio is fast with DV those days. Speed is not everything. Possibilities are. That's where FCP shines. SE was claiming resolution and frame rate independency, but now they are saying the limit is 2k. FCP is a finishing tool, not only a cutter. Although I know there's no chance in cold deep H* SE will be that, I was hoping it would be at least as versatile as FCP and an video/audio editor with a decent titler. If they outdo FCP in audio would be great too since FCP is not so hot on that.

By the way, sorry Demon8, but Premiere is not the FCP of Windows. Not IMO anyways.

[Bobt]

Premiere Pro 2 is quite good. Have you tried it? Remember if you add the production suite you get AE etc.. Makes a big difference since they can share projects.

Bob

[Mike Maier]

Yeah, I have tried and I actually have a 2.0 demo sitting right here on my HDD. It expires in 4 days. FCP it ain't. I still prefer Vegas over Premiere. But Vegas too now seems to be dragging on HDV support as does Premiere. Both need Cineform to work with HDV and they still don't work very well. As I said, every new application that showed up gave me hope it could be the FCP of Windows. When Vegas started taking off it looked very promising, but since Sony bought it and since HD became common place Vegas is dragging. Whe Insync released Blade I hopped the same. It was flop, I don't even think Insync is around anymore, are they? Then when Adobe upgraded to Premiere Pro I also hopped they would get their stuff together, but the didn't. It was great improvement, just not quite there yet.
Will I have to surrender and buy a Mac? God I hope not.

[Mike Maier]

Same with XDCAM HD support.

But SpeedEDIT is a 1.0, it can't do everything initially.


Well, actually it's really more like a 5.0 version since most of it seems to be taken from VTedit and it seems it will replaced it in VT5.

[Videonut]

Well, actually it's really more like a 5.0 version since most of it seems to be taken from VTedit and it seems it will replaced it in VT5.

Eugene is right, 1.0 is still new. Don't forget, this platform is a new codec and takes more than a few lines of code to make. I do assume that some of the camera supports will evolve very soon. The XDCAM HD and the Panasonic 200 cameras are good examples. I also hope that the CG will be refined more as well. I guess we will soon see. I have also had an opportunity to use the software FCP for about a year. It is like anything else, none of the platforms can do it all.

[ScorpioProd]

Well, from what I've heard, though SE may look a lot like VT-Edit, and function a lot like VT-Edit, it's really new software, very different internally than VT-Edit, so no, it's a 1.0.

Just look at Canopus to see that MXF support for XDCAM HD and P2 does NOT come with the basic NLE, you need to add the Broadcast Pack for the extra licensing and such that goes with the support, not something you get for the base price.

Are there really that many people looking to use 2K+ with SpeedEDIT??? I really doubt that.

As for audio in SpeedEDIT, beyond the L/R audio waveforms, I haven't really seen much mentioned on improvements in that.

As for Vegas, you are quite wrong. Vegas does HDV decoding NATIVELY now. I just finished a 30-day demo of Vegas 7, and I am quite impressed with it, and it does have native XDCAM HD support, better than any other I've seen, being that it is a Sony product. It's certainly not dragging on HDV support. But it's a different paradigm, using preview quality and frame dropping to maintain the real-time edit experience. It's a different philosophy versus SpeedEDIT or EDIUS. In fact, there's a lot I liked about Vegas 7, till I saw issues with how it actually deals or doesn't deal with the setup level in NTSC video correctly. Try sending it color bars through the AVI Wrapper from VT, and you'll see what I mean. Or render them to NT25 and put that in Vegas, or render out to NT25 in Vegas. There are definately some issues there. But man, it does have a rich feature set.

[evexon]

Are there really that many people looking to use 2K+ with SpeedEDIT??? I really doubt that.
Not that this counts as "many" but I know one person that will try. :hey:

[ScorpioProd]

I'm not saying that some won't need it, but I think one needs to look at who SpeedEDIT is really being marketed to, at least in the initial release.

But it is cool to need that ability. :)

[ChrisFar]

Man, this is like Canopus take 2 when they went from there Raptor/Rex/StormEdit series to Edius. Lets hope Newtek does a better job. Edius 1.0 sucked. I am wait and see with SpeedEdit. As someone who once owned 3 Amiga Toaster/Flyers I loved the software and hated waitng for 5.0, and then firewire. I have Edius 4.0 trial waiting for SpeedEdit trial, then I will install on my new Core 2 Duo System to see where my next purchase will be. Newtek has a great opportunity here lets hope they take advantage of it. Edius 4.1 is buggy and they keep breaking things. Get SpeedEdit out and bugfree and you may get some converts quicker than you thought.
Chris

[wvp]

...is not the FCP of Windows. Not IMO anyways.
So I ask, in your opinion, what exactly makes FCP "better than everything else"?
And then I would ask, If FCP is so much better why not just use that?
I ask this because I think it is good info for people to have. I have my opinions of FCP and SE users need to decide what program they want to use.

...SE was claiming resolution and frame rate independency
They still are... SE will edit all files in a project independent of frame rate or resolution. They have also said that SE currently supports projects up to 2k in resolution.
You are welcome (as you are in VT4) to place higher resolution files on the timeline and they will be scaled to fit the maximum resolution for output. Further, your computer will likely choke at larger file sizes at this point.

[steveg]

Why do people keep arguing for and against Speed Edit when it doesn't even exist. This is almost as stupid as paying for it 6 months ago and never receiving even a beta copy by now. For all we know it is still just smokin' mirrors. If they demo'd the real thing, where is it? NewTek is content to just let us argue whether it is better to buy FCP or Vegas or Premier. All of this seems to be a distraction from the reality that so far Speed Edit does not exist. One more time I will state, I have to purchase something that will edit HD before christmas. I promised my clients that NewTek would deliver way before now. They are not disapointed in NewTek. They are disapointed in me.

[cholo]

How can FCP be a finishing tool when it doesn't even show you a proper waveform/vector for reference? You can't even tell if your fielding is correct from the program window. VT has had all those things for years! I have had FCP at the studio for years and it never fails to disappoint when I use it.

[Whelkn]

I'm wondering how many of you people plan on editing I-max wedding videos with speed edit? Geez--- 2k is a great resolution to be capped at for the moment.

It seems you'll be able to throw higher rez images on the timeline and speed edit will just crop it like VT-edit does with larger Images and let you pan and scan--sounds great to me.

I'm excited cause I have allot of 2k image sequences for my demo reel. It will be cool having a a 2k reel---to bad I have nothing to play it back with :-(--- But it feels good on the inside and that is what matters most.


Jeremy

[Seattle-HotShot]

Wow, IMAX.... now that would be cool :) Anyone know the actual spec for IMAX? Maybe I should go look that up... if I find it, I'll post back, k? Don't wait up for me :)

Be like those stop motion movies that were made with Digital SLRs... Corpse Bride was one, right? Shot on Canon D SLRs if I remember correctly. Gee, I may never get outside to play anymore, I'll just be locked in the closet.... click, click, click... ok, well that sounded better before I typed it there...

[Seattle-HotShot]

IMAX Info
http://www.imax.com/ImaxWeb/imaxExperience.do?param_section=whatImax&param_subMenuSelect=whatImaxSelect

Ok, they don't give an exact number, except they describe the film size as:

IMAX uses 15-perforation, 70mm film to create images of incredible sharpness. The 15/70 frame is 10 times larger than the 35mm used in regular theatres. This makes it the largest commercial film ever invented. Would you believe, IMAX large format film is so strong it could be used to tow your car?

----
So that's gotta be a few mega pixels right? Hey... RED anyone?

[steveg]

film prints are aproximately 100 to 125 pixels per milimeter across, times the same down. find the width and height of the picture area and do the math.

[harlan]

How can FCP be a finishing tool when it doesn't even show you a proper waveform/vector for reference? You can't even tell if your fielding is correct from the program window. VT has had all those things for years! I have had FCP at the studio for years and it never fails to disappoint when I use it.


Whoa whoa whoa whoa.... wait just a minute there Mr. Misinformation!!! ;)

For starters, not only does FCP have a full Waveform & Vectorscope, but it also has Parade & Histogram; providing a full range of evaluation & reference tools. All of these tools work in realtime and have quite a range of customizability to make them work the way you desire.

By default, the scope's are setup to sample every 27th line of video; this provides a sufficient level of accuracy for 99.99% of your work while using very little system resources, but you can have it sample every line of video if you so desire (you can also have it sample less if need be).

The scope's in FCP can be set to monitor the Canvas (the output of your timeline), the Viewer (preview or individual clips), and you can even have it monitor multiple edit points for a comparative analysis of various clips in your timeline or comparative clip/playhead analysis. You can also adjust the intensity & colors of the scope's display as well as size them as large or small as you'd like.

In addition to the amazingly powerful scopes in FCP, you also have a variety of other realtime analysis tools ie: Excess Luma, Excess Chroma, Zebra 75, Zebra 100, In Range Checking, and also true system generated Test Patterns for any video format supported by FCP. The benefit of using a true "system generated" Color Bars or other test pattern, is that they're 100% accurate based on the video standard/system you're using for your project - unlike the generic "image based" test pattern "images" found in some "other" systems.

It's one thing to have a copy of FCP in your studio, but perhaps you should turn it on and learn how to use it. ;) Seriously, not being rude or anything. Pick up a decent FCP book (there are hundreds to choose from) and learn just how capable a system it is. FCP is a top tier NLE system and there are really only about 3 other mainstream systems out there offering a comparable feature set (and two of those systems sell for ungodly amounts of cash). FCP is not one of the most popular (quickly becoming THE most popular) editing systems on the planet because it "disappoints" when people turn it on.

[harlan]

I tried to "edit" my post and make some corrections, but there's apparently some sort of limitation to being able to edit your own posts for some reason. So here's the corrections:


In addition to the amazingly powerful scopes in FCP, you also have a variety of other realtime analysis tools ie: Excess Luma, Excess Chroma, Zebras, In Range Checking, and also system generated Test Patterns for any video format supported by FCP. System generated Color Bars/Test Pattern's are nice as they're quite accurate and are based on the video standard/system you're using for your project - unlike the generic "image based" test pattern "images" found in some "other" systems.


PS - WTF??? Why can't we edit our posts? I had some stupid admin message pop up saying I could only edit for 5 minutes after posting... well... ummm... it was about a minute after posting that I tried to correct the errors. What's the deal with that? D@mn paranoid people around here!!!

[Mike Maier]

FCP is a top tier NLE system and there are really only about 3 other mainstream systems out there offering a comparable feature set (and two of those systems sell for ungodly amounts of cash).

What are the other three?

[UnCommonGrafx]

Hmm, I bet he means the outrageous and quite capable triumvirate of Media Composer, Symphony and Smoke.

Truly, comparisons to FCP ought to end as there is much more in the package than we'll see in ours any time soon. It's just not an appropriate comparison, price-wise, feature-wise nor useage-wise.

I don't own FCP but from what I've seen of it, feature envy is awfully high. Even if only for the audio and alpha support. I've seen the feature list of SE and it pales in comparison. But it's supposed to... it isn't for the ... more advanced crowd, or so the statement has gone.

[cholo]

I'm sorry for any incorrect information. I wasn't aware of the waveform's capacity to sample as many lines of video as needed.

[Ahmed]

I tried to "edit" my post and make some corrections, but there's apparently some sort of limitation to being able to edit your own posts for some reason. So here's the corrections:


In addition to the amazingly powerful scopes in FCP, you also have a variety of other realtime analysis tools ie: Excess Luma, Excess Chroma, Zebras, In Range Checking, and also system generated Test Patterns for any video format supported by FCP. System generated Color Bars/Test Pattern's are nice as they're quite accurate and are based on the video standard/system you're using for your project - unlike the generic "image based" test pattern "images" found in some "other" systems.


PS - WTF??? Why can't we edit our posts? I had some stupid admin message pop up saying I could only edit for 5 minutes after posting... well... ummm... it was about a minute after posting that I tried to correct the errors. What's the deal with that? D@mn paranoid people around here!!!

I thought you are God. You could do whatever you want. Wipe the administrator off the earth... :)

BTW, how do you turn FCP on? May be I am not sexy anymore.
Nice to see you once a year Harlan.

[harlan]

I'm sorry for any incorrect information. I wasn't aware of the waveform's capacity to sample as many lines of video as needed.


No problem at all, bro, that's why I left a "smiley face". I didn't mean to offend or anything, I just wanted to clarify the issues with regard to FCP. By the way, check out the Scopes in Sony's Vegas, they're almost a spot on rip off of the scopes found in FCP (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery). :)

FCP can be quite overwhelming and it's easy to overlook some of it's capabilities. There are quite a few professionally trained FCP editors (even some certified instructors) who aren't aware of some of the features & capabilities FCP offers.

For example: If I had a dollar for every email I get regarding "why do I always have to render my audio in FCP", I'd be a very rich man (btw, they don't have to render their audio, they just overlook a simple setting). Anyway, the point is, it's so feature rich that it's easy to miss functions.

I for one would rather have the overwhelming feature set than the lack thereof found in a number of other NLE's. Each NLE has it's own main feature or "selling point", but they overlook so many needed functions as they focus exclusively on that one particular "selling point". Robert is right in the reference to Media Composer, Symphony (or DS), and Smoke; in addition to FCP. They may not be the greatest tools in the world, but they all have very "well rounded" feature rich tool sets - they don't cater to one specific idea or function. These NLE's can be as complex or basic as you'd like because they have the tools needed to get the job done regardless of size.

The cool thing about FCP is that, like the other NLE's mentioned above, it's quite feature rich, but it provides the same toolset as those other NLE's but it comes wrapped in an insanely affordable price.

My hope is that with SE, NewTek will focus on bringing these much needed tools to the table rather than pumping the Storyboard so much. NewTek has this great ability to make the most complex task seem simple, and I'd love to see them provide the high end features found in FCP or Avid but with the ease of use NewTek historically excelled at.

Anyway... I'll quit rambling for now, but I'll come back and add more to this thread in the near future.

Oh... Hey Ahmed. How are ya? I hope you're well, and I look forward to the time when we'll get to hang out for a while again - be it here in the states or wherever. Take care my friend, and I wish you the best.


PS - Speaking of copying features from other applications. I realize FCP steals features from other apps, and I"m not saying that it doesn't - everyone does (and that's a good thing in my opinion). I wish NewTek would do it more often rather than trying to do everything themselves as they currently do - if they'd just copy the base feature set of Avid & FCP to augment the features already offered in SE/VTEdit, they'd have a really really cool product. Unfortunately NewTek's tools alone don't offer the base level of functionality required by a large number of editors. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel, the wheel is round and already rolls, focus your talents on making it roll better.

[UnCommonGrafx]

Somewhere, they said they can't compete in that realm, i.e., Avid, adobe,Apple, etc. That saddened me no end because I surely thought they had a quantel-like toolset in VTEdit/LW/Aura integration. LWC was something of a proof of concept in that regard.

I just hope they aren't spending all their precious resources on something that belies the claims of not being able to compete with the big boys while leaving users hanging on a lessening of the toolset, e.g., no avi wrapper.

[cholo]

Over the years working in this business, I've come to realize it's not about the features, but how well software works for what I need it for. I don't believe in a single application for everything. I don't see car mechanics going nuts over a hammer/screwdriver/tire pump/wrench/ladder/juicer. I don't believe an NLE is the best environment to do compositing in, in the end it just slows me down. Some basic features are important so you don't have to leave your app for something very basic that you should be able to do inside the editing app, but when the time comes for some heavyweight FX work, there's better alternatives. I've had After Effects sessions with as many as 60 layers, do I want those 60 layers in my edit timeline? Do I want my project to take 30 minutes to open because I went overboard with layering? Not only that, I don't know about you guys, but the clients I work with tend to make changes. Every time a new change comes in, I need to encode the whole program again to make a new DVD. Sometimes, heavy layering work takes as long as an hour to render a 10 second sequence, do I want to spend that extra hour every time I change something elsewhere in my program? And where does it all end anyway? Do we want lightwave's toolset inside editing app just in case? How many features is too many features?

From my perspective, a well balanced editing application is worth more than a heavy featured one. I know I shouldn't expect the audio features in ANY editing application to be subtitute for a session at a real audio studio with a professional audio engineer at the wheel. I also wouldn't expect color correction tools to compete with bringing my material to a DaVinci suite with a professional operator. But that's just me. In any case, that's why there's so many editing applications to choose from, because none of them are perfect.

[Ahmed]

Oh... Hey Ahmed. How are ya? I hope you're well, and I look forward to the time when we'll get to hang out for a while again - be it here in the states or wherever. Take care my friend, and I wish you the best.


PS - Speaking of copying features from other applications. I realize FCP steals features from other apps, and I"m not saying that it doesn't - everyone does (and that's a good thing in my opinion). I wish NewTek would do it more often rather than trying to do everything themselves as they currently do - if they'd just copy the base feature set of Avid & FCP to augment the features already offered in SE/VTEdit, they'd have a really really cool product. Unfortunately NewTek's tools alone don't offer the base level of functionality required by a large number of editors. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel, the wheel is round and already rolls, focus your talents on making it roll better.

I am find, but I got much older after that outing. May be next year would meet again.

Having done the greetings, I will chime in defending my fav. editing tool.

At home, I have Premiere Pro, because I do not have the VT. It is full featured, but give me VT-Edit anytime. Or SpeedEdit. The reason, is because of how fast I can edit with VT-Edit. VT-Edit does not have all the features of Premiere Pro, but it has all the features that I want. And accessing those features is faster than similar features with APP.

Few months ago we hired an editor who is used to FCP and APP. Within 3 days he learned VT-Edit thanks to Ahmed Faraz DVD. He loves editing with VT-Edit, because it, in his words, faster.
So I think NewTek may have gotten it right, by calling the stand-alone version SpeedEdit.
BTW, my home workstation is faster than our editing system.

As of copying features and not re-inventing the wheel, you spoke wisdom. Why not, if it is cool, copy it, just make it faster.

[wvp]

...I don't believe in a single application for everything. ... In any case, that's why there's so many editing applications to choose from, because none of them are perfect.
I agree with you but... NT needs to boost the feature set some. FCP includes a very nice/handy and fairly simple ability to create "motion" graphics. It is a separate program which integrates into the editor.
I think if NT could get something like that + make huge improvements on the editor + improve audio sweetening + add a number of smaller features (multi-cam editing, track based editing, lock clips together (keep in sync), etc. they would have a much better product to compete with.

For example, it would be very helpful to have some pre-made moves to apply to clips. Currently we need to design the moves, then save them in toolshed, then try to remember what the move is with a short description in order to apply to a new clip.

With the help of digital juice, Aura, Lightwave, Bob's plug ins & 3d Arsenal I can probably make anything that can be done in FCP - but it will likely cost more (to buy all these programs) and take a lot more time. Of course I would also be able to do a lot more than FCP, but the point is to be able to do some of this stuff on a smaller scale without the big investment in money and time.

[badllarma]

I agree with you but... NT needs to boost the feature set some. FCP includes a very nice/handy and fairly simple ability to create "motion" graphics. It is a separate program which integrates into the editor.
I think if NT could get something like that + make huge improvements on the editor + improve audio sweetening + add a number of smaller features (multi-cam editing, track based editing, lock clips together (keep in sync), etc. they would have a much better product to compete with.

For example, it would be very helpful to have some pre-made moves to apply to clips. Currently we need to design the moves, then save them in toolshed, then try to remember what the move is with a short description in order to apply to a new clip.

With the help of digital juice, Aura, Lightwave, Bob's plug ins & 3d Arsenal I can probably make anything that can be done in FCP - but it will likely cost more (to buy all these programs) and take a lot more time. Of course I would also be able to do a lot more than FCP, but the point is to be able to do some of this stuff on a smaller scale without the big investment in money and time.

I'm not sure I agree with this after all there is VT!! But what I do want is a fast editor with some excellent post tools such as a comprehensive colour grading tool set (including good key frameable masking tools) and I'll be a happy Llarma.

If you want all the bells and whistle of a CGI tool set Arura (what really need a major update for VT 5.0 BTW) Lightwave etc..then go an buy a VT :)

[UnCommonGrafx]

I dunno...

I really don't believe anyone here is asking for all the bells and whistles, just the common ones one expects of such an innovative creator as NewTek.

For example, there will be no happy llamas as there is no masking on the spec sheet of SE nor in VTEdit, sans Bob's stuff.

I have always be a NewTek defender and apologist, as these terms have been bandied about as of late, but on this front I'm standing my lusting ground: we should have better than VTEdit in SE even in 1.0. Not less.

Better is the phrase that I think is more apropos to what the desire is that has been expressed. That is to say, not the same as what a VT owner already has in VTEdit. HD/HDV notwithstanding, gooder is what the specs say, not better.

These are all opinions, of course, and nothing matters until we actually get it in our hands. Then hear about what's to actually come in 1.x versions and beyond.

As ole Fred used to say,
"Good, better, best;
never let it rest
Until your good is better
And your better is Best's"

[badllarma]

Lucky I already have Bobt's plugins. :)

All I see is you have a real time editor with comprehensive colour tools your well on the way to a budget Lustre System :thumbsup: :D

Which would be F@*king awsume a 2k edit/grading solution for under 30k! Bring it on! I just see Newtek missing a trick (The same trick they DID pull with the original release of the original Toaster BTW). And left everyone catching up for quiet a while.

This is as you say all speculation but while we are waiting for the product we can but dream :)

[Jim_C]

II think if NT could get something like that + make huge improvements on the editor + improve audio sweetening + add a number of smaller features (multi-cam editing, track based editing, lock clips together (keep in sync), etc. they would have a much better product to compete with.



Geez.. Is that all?

You've basically described creating a whole new app.
The terms 'huge improvements on the editor' are not light and easy words.

I don't know if multi-cam editing would be considered a 'smaller feature' either.

There's a lot of work and programming in that one little paragraph... :D

But I guess I gotta agree if they did ALL that, they would have a heck of a product.
(Except make track based editing an option, cause I hate it)


Jim

[ScorpioProd]

And if anyone wins the lottery and wants to give the money to Newtek for R&D, I think we here would all say "thank you." That's what it would take to implement all that has been suggested. People seem to forget that Newtek is a SMALL COMPANY. They don't have the resources of the "big boys."

Anyone who thinks implementing something like MCE is easy wasn't involved in the beta program for Bob's MCE, as I was.

I agree with what Robert said, but one has to remember, just like making a new car, wanting features even months before a product ships doesn't mean that they're gonna magically be there. Remember, Newtek DID have a public poll in the Spring, and that poll DID overwhelmingly say that people wanted HD support. ALL other requests were buried way down the poll due to the demand for that. Combine this with the fact that many people have wanted a stand-alone VT-Edit for years. Conclusion, Newtek is making EXACTLY what was asked for by the users, at the time it was relavent to defining what SpeedEDIT was going to be. (Though I VERY strongly agree that existing features should NOT be going away!)

Now I'm not saying that MANY of us haven't asked for more features for YEARS, we have. BUT, again, going by the poll, one would never know that.

I think people just need to accept that SpeedEDIT may be the fastest bread and butter editor around, but it won't have the most features.

As for waiting for upgrades, well, I really think the impression that 1.0 makes will be the important one. I mean, I think people do have to look at history related to speed of updates, that's just reality, especially for business users.

[Mike Maier]

I think if NT could get something like that + make huge improvements on the editor + improve audio sweetening + add a number of smaller features (multi-cam editing, track based editing, lock clips together (keep in sync), etc. they would have a much better product to compete with
It doesn't have lock clips? That's basic bread and butter editing. I think even windows movie maker must have it those days, no? Powerful compositing, fx and etc I'm not holding my breath for. But basic editing tools is a must I think and some audio control besides volume would be expected as well, likewise 5.1 support.

Lucky I already have Bobt's plugins. :)

Which would be F@*king awsume a 2k edit/grading solution for under 30k! Bring it on!

Well, we already have that on other applications too and for well under 30k.
But if I'm not wrong SE also does that. If it has a 3 wheel color corrector and can do up to 2k, I would think you can grade that 2k as well.


I think people just need to accept that SpeedEDIT may be the fastest bread and butter editor around, but it won't have the most features.

Yeah, that's what I'm starting to see too. I thought SE could maybe be the FCP for windows when I first heard of it, then when I found out it won’t be even close, I thought it could be at least a great alternative for Avid (which is an editor only but one of the best at that) but after all the stuff I have been learning lately and all the stuff I would hope to be there and is not, I'm getting used to the idea that SE may not be for me (and for many others that have more professional or higher end needs). I will wait and see. If it comes out before end of year I will check it out and if it's really not up to my needs and is really basic as it’s sounding, I will pass on it. If it doesn't come up till end of the year I'm passing on it for sure. Patience has limits. I understand the deal of Newtek being a small company and all and it's all very moving but on the end of the day it's nobody's fault they can't compete with the big boys if the big boys offer more bang for the buck. All I want is to do my work. Nobody will feel sympathetic towards them because they are little. It's not people’s problem. Professionals just want the tools they need. If a company can't offer it, there are sure others that can and people will just move on, little company or not, well intended and all.

[Jim_C]

It doesn't have lock clips?

You can place as many clips as need be into a sub project which will lock them together.
BUT.... ahem... the subproject has limitations that clips on their own do not.

Depending on your editing the limitations may be a brick wall or you might not notice it.

It's, of course, going to depend on your editing style and needs Mike.
As to whether SE is 'full' featured to you or not. (Obvious statement)
For some it will have more than they will ever use and others, less than they really need.

But I think you've read and seen enough now that I can say, what I wanted to say when you first made the statement...

SE could maybe be the FCP for windows

Na,unfortunately not(or fortunately deopending on your view of FCP) but I don't think even the fanniest of fan boys could say yes to that one.

Jim

[UnCommonGrafx]

No, I couldn't.8~

[tfrank]

SpeedEdit is not going to meet everyone's needs. Hey, it's a piece of software that's UNDER $500.! :) Before there was software, I use to do cuts only video tape editing with $160,000.00 of hardware. With what SpeedEdit can do today, I am going to be able to pay for that $500. of software in a few short hours.:santa:

[ScorpioProd]

You can place as many clips as need be into a sub project which will lock them together.
BUT.... ahem... the subproject has limitations that clips on their own do not.


Subprojects certainly have their uses, currently mainly for organizational purposes.

IF subprojects had all the controls like clips, they certainly would be more useful.

The main reason I don't see subprojects viable for use locking clips (based on VT-Edit) is simply since they remove all the individuality of the clips, so you see one clip, and you don't know what's in it by looking at it. More importantly, you have NO AUDIO WAVEFORM WHATSOEVER!

To me, that makes them not useful for locking clips.

As for SpeedEDIT itself, I still think it's editing concept will be good for bread and butter, but I really don't see the price point as that big a deal. Of course the old editing ways not that many years back were more expensive, but it's frankly more important to compare it to the competition at its current price point, and for this, SpeedEDIT is better than some and worse than some. All those being compared being professional NLEs.

[ted]

I'm excited about what SpeedEdit can do and we'll be using it in our facility.
But if anyone thinks this will do everything that every other editor can do, all in one package...get real! :p It's version 1.0.

Personally I think it's a great begining of a great new product/tool.
So I suggest if you don't like it, either don't buy it or make sure you work "with" NewTek to make it better for goodness sake.

Maybe it's just the way I sometimes take it, but often the tone sounds like "Debbie Downer". :D

[Keith Nealy]

IMHO, SE and VT5 will never be as feature rich as the big boys. That's not their game. Remember, they're video for the masses.

However, SE and VT 5 will be the fastest at simple basic editing and will be perfect for most editing. I use an entire suite of applications depending on my needs. Each of them are among the best at what they do. Cholo said the same thing the other day - who wants a timeline laden down with a 30 layer composite?

What I want is good fast basic editing. some more basics would be nice but I'm not sure I would trade speed or realtime for features.

After we get done with "NewTek bashing" and "Feature Frustration" I would like to continue the dialogue about more efficient transfer of files to and from other apps to SE and VT5 because that is the world we will be living in.

And Mike regarding your comments about "when is this going to happen?" I am told we are VERY close.

aloha,

Keith

[Mike Maier]

SpeedEdit is not going to meet everyone's needs. Hey, it's a piece of software that's UNDER $500.! :) Before there was software, I use to do cuts only video tape editing with $160,000.00 of hardware. With what SpeedEdit can do today, I am going to be able to pay for that $500. of software in a few short hours.:santa:

Well, that's not really a valid argument. Just 5 years ago the cheapest HD camera you could buy was 60k. If we will be glad for every application that hits the market for cheaper than late 80's early 90's gear and allow us to do the same, we will be satisfied with even windows moviemaker. Times are just different. A comparison is not even fair. The excuse of under $500 is already growing long on the teeth. Vegas 4.0 was under $500 and did much, much more than SE seems to do. It sure had locking clips and other basic tools. It had an useable chromakeyer, a lot of fx and transitions, a 3 wheel color corrector, secondary color correction, 4 different scopes, not to mention the best audio set of all the NLE industry. All for under $500 and all 3 or 4 years ago and Sonic Foundry was also a small company is that's any excuse. How much of that will SE have for under $500? So how can under $500 today be used as an excuse for cutting corners?

Subprojects certainly have their uses, currently mainly for organizational purposes.
IF subprojects had all the controls like clips, they certainly would be more useful.
The main reason I don't see subprojects viable for use locking clips (based on VT-Edit) is simply since they remove all the individuality of the clips, so you see one clip, and you don't know what's in it by looking at it. More importantly, you have NO AUDIO WAVEFORM WHATSOEVER!
To me, that makes them not useful for locking clips.

This seems to be the similar to Fuse in Liquid. Really useless for locking projects. With all the basic editor concept being thrown around, I would think it would have basic tools included. I mean, am I being too hard on them? Do anybody disagree locking projects is bread and butter and should be included?

[wvp]

Geez.. Is that all?

You've basically described creating a whole new app.
The terms 'huge improvements on the editor' are not light and easy words.

I don't know if multi-cam editing would be considered a 'smaller feature' either.

There's a lot of work and programming in that one little paragraph... :D

But I guess I gotta agree if they did ALL that, they would have a heck of a product.
(Except make track based editing an option, cause I hate it)


Jim
um, er, first off I ment to say "huge improvements on the CG", not the editor - sorry.
My basic point is that many if not all of these "features" have been discussed before and it would be nice to have them in a more rounded editing suite.
I AM looking forward to SpeedEdit and what it will bring!

[rycar_m]

I see it this way:

the sooner i get over editing the more time i 've got for all the cool stuff like compositin, effects... and thats why i am thinking of purchasing SE.

rc m

[rycar_m]

Let me add:

not that editing and trimming aren't cool its just the tediousness off all most all nle work interface that makes you work harder thus making you less productive.

rc m

[rycar_m]

Let me add:

i do 1/2 hour cable and broadcast 30 min info type content , they got PIP, split screens, some chroma, scrolls, graphics. i very rarely do i go over 10 layers.

because of its nature usually i am tight on time and have less than 2 or 3 days to shoot and edit.

I tried doing this with my old edit* and fast as it is it barely made it, i tried premiere and as capable as it is the program came out late and allmost cost me the client. I went to a friend with fcp and the rendering time was killing me, for every change a render it got madding.

I purchase a little know european app with a new kind off interface that included storyboard and compoisting write on the timeline and i was able to not only do it but have time to do it well.

So why am i jumping to SE? because it does hdv, the storyboarding and interface looks much more powerfull for what i need.

well i am not really jumping i am just adding a tool i will continue doing my effects and comps on my old app thats much faster than after effects.

I have also tried liquid and though i like it and its the fastest between fcp,premiere & edit but it still has somewhat of an ancient editing interface and i have a liking to the storyboard and true non linear editing because its better.


rcm


rc

[Mike Maier]

I see it this way:

the sooner i get over editing the more time i 've got for all the cool stuff like compositin, effects... and thats why i am thinking of purchasing SE.

rc m

Ricky, I see your point and it's actually a very valid one. But the advantage of having an application like FCP studio or Adobe Studio and even Avid Xpress Studio is that you don't need to render back and forth to your compositing program or audio program. That besides being better for your final quality, since less rendering is needed, also saves a lot of time and may even make up for the extra speed you may gain with SE. Although I know no application can do it all, it's possible to edit and finish a whole feature film with fx, compositing and even 3d animation (for FCP) without ever leaving FCP, Adobe or Avid. The times you may need another application will be very seldom. The problem with Adobe is stability and workflow (IMO) while the problem with FCP is the mandatory dongle and with Avid is that’s the weakest of them all in terms of feature set and also doesn’t work with HDV.
But all those suites can be bought for much less that would cost you to buy SE +a compositing application + audio program etc.

[rycar_m]

Mike

For my type of project i would only render once and then import into my app and do all the stuff there and then print to tape. yes its a half hour timline.

Avid while a standard is imop so out of date interface wise. not to mention its fee based customer service which i have grown to hate.

FCP might have a lot of bells and wistles but its interface is a mess, they have added so many things so fast that looking for things can be a trek, besides to make it real time you got to add some very expensive harware.

I would be looking into fcp if it had a top storyboard interface, backgound rendering, inteligent rendering and gpu based preview and these are things that realy count when you are editing specialy with a client sitting behind you.
have you ever tried doing this with a fcp?

my suggestion is to have a variaty of tools and choos the best for the project.

my setup is:

for editing/ comp - cinegy

for multi cam/hdv/dvd - liquid

for idiot producers - fcp


rc m

[Videonut]

The problem with Adobe is stability and workflow (IMO) while the problem with FCP is the mandatory dongle and with Avid is that’s the weakest of them all in terms of feature set and also doesn’t work with HDV.
But all those suites can be bought for much less that would cost you to buy SE +a compositing application + audio program etc.

Yea, I guess you can make that claim that the these apps will be cheaper in the long run. I know for me, I use VT for the majority of all my editing, but I happen to use Boris Red for compositing because I am use to it and like what it does for me. I also use After Effects for some things because I like what it does for me and I use Audition for my audio but not just for video sound but also for playing with the sound for my mp3 player. So what it boils down to is that there will never be a one size fits all type and for me, I just have the need to defend that position. I cannot wait to see what SE can do because if it is very similar to VT, then my editing time will be dramatically reduced and for me time is money.

[axaboss]

Seriously, look at AJA before you look at Decklink (support is a BIG issue here, not to mention features...). If you have specific questions I can get our AJA specialist on the phone for you...
AJA is has the best support team on the planet.