MPG Render in SpeedEdit

[wvp]

hey Eugene,
I know you had a lot to do with the settings in SE for MPG rendering. What are your thoughts on the quality? Is there a way to render the file using Bobs chapter points (or does SE read markers as chapters (ie I frames)?

[ScorpioProd]

hey Eugene,
I know you had a lot to do with the settings in SE for MPG rendering. What are your thoughts on the quality? Is there a way to render the file using Bobs chapter points (or does SE read markers as chapters (ie I frames)?
Whoa there! No, no, no, I can't take credit for that! All credit for that goes to :newtek:, not me.

I may have contributed some data rate suggestions, but that was the TOTAL extent of my involvement with ANY settings in SpeedEDIT's encoder for MPEG rendering.

My thoughts on the quality... Well, I think SpeedEDIT 1.0 is a good 1.0 product... It's not perfect, and it will get better as it progresses in the future... This includes the built-in MPEG encoder, which should also be thought of as a 1.0 product... It certainly is convienient, being built-into the program, if it does what you need... And I have no doubt it can do what some need...

But since you're really asking me if there is superior quality rendering your MPEG-2 in TMPGEnc instead of using SpeedEDIT's encoder, I have to answer yes.

It's really a shame that one has to go through an intermediate codec to do that now, instead of using a VTP loader like in VT-EDIT. But even though you have to render to an intermediate, the results with TMPGEnc are still superior.

If you ask me how will you get maximum quality from a DV project, I would say: Render your SpeedEDIT project to a Type-2 DV codec and load that into TMPGEnc for your MPEG-2 encode.

As for Bob's Chapter Points, following the advice I describe above, you can use Bob's Chapter Points to have your markers go to TMPGEnc to force I-Frames for the chapter points you want.

No, there is no way to have SpeedEDIT's encoder force I-frames for chapter points.

[ted]

Ya gotta take some credit Eugene. We all look to you when we have DVD questions!
I know how much your input helped NewTek. :hey:
I'm counting on SE being more mature before it gets to VT5.

[Bobt]

Eugene, you are da MPEG DVD man. If they dont listen to what you have to say that would not be good. You have simply figured out how to squeeze the more out of DVD"s than most here. So my hats off to ya.

Bob

[wvp]

whatever eugene :)
Sorry to hear SE does not support forced I frames. Hopefully in future version it will. I've thought about upgrading my tmpgenc (from 2.5) but wanted to hold off until I saw what SE would do.
Thanks for the input.

[ScorpioProd]

I also still recommend sticking with TMGPEnc 2.5, not upgrading newer.

IF your purpose is MPEG-2 for DVD, that is. The newer versions can do other things, but for just that, 2.5 is fine.

[John Perkins]

I have to agree.

If a company that specializes in MPEG (Such as TMPGenc) isn't able to do a cleaner MPEG I would be amazed.

You just need to weigh the quality/expense/workflow options and use what fits your need.

[wvp]

I have to agree.

If a company that specializes in MPEG (Such as TMPGenc) isn't able to do a cleaner MPEG I would be amazed.

You just need to weigh the quality/expense/workflow options and use what fits your need.
Yeah but John I want the quality of TMPGenc (actually better) but the workflow of your integrated solution!
Seriously though it makes little sense to me to have mpg rendering if it can't at least match TMPGenc in quality and speed.
Its been batted around before but we frequently have projects that won't load into TMPGenc, causing a need to render the project first - which is a real time waster.
Hopefully SE projects can work with TMPGenc better than my 4.6 one's - it would help a whole lot.

[ScorpioProd]

Yeah but John I want the quality of TMPGenc (actually better) but the workflow of your integrated solution!
Don't we all. :)

Seriously though it makes little sense to me to have mpg rendering if it can't at least match TMPGenc in quality and speed.
Don't underestimate the convienience factor for new users. A new user probably would have no idea what TMPGEnc is, or how to use it properly. And the money with SpeedEDIT sales will be made with new users, not with us.

Its been batted around before but we frequently have projects that won't load into TMPGenc, causing a need to render the project first - which is a real time waster.
Hopefully SE projects can work with TMPGenc better than my 4.6 one's - it would help a whole lot.

Ah, remember, SpeedEDIT doesn't currently have a VTP loader for TMPGEnc, so you must render out to an intermediate as I suggested, and I guarranty you won't have a compatibility problem that way. :)

And though this may surprise you, if you pick the right intermediate codec, you will find as I did... It's QUICKER to render to an intermediate and then use TMPGEnc than rendering direct to MPEG-2 in SpeedEDIT! Surprising, eh?

The secret is to pick the MainConcept DV codec instead of the Newtek DV codec for the intermediate codec.

The quality of the MainConcept DV codec and the Newtek DV codec is identical, from my tests, but the MainConcept one can be up to about twice real-time, while the Newtek one has never gone faster than real-time for me. That makes a big difference. If you are on a VT system with SpeedEDIT, you already have the codec installed. :)

So no, following my advice, you won't be wasting time doing an intermediate render, you'll be SAVING time versus the alternative. :)

And if we can get a VTP loader for SpeedEDIT, that time should get even shorter...

[dmk75]

Eugene,
Since we on this subject could you share settings that you use in TMPGEnc 2.5 to get the best results for DVD?
Your input is very appriciated.

Thanks

[ScorpioProd]

That's more than a short essay to write...

Anyone who wants a copy of my old Toasting DVDs article, just drop me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send it out to you.

It's an oldie but a goodie. :)

[Lee U]

Eugene, I would like to know a little more about MainConcept. I currently have SE on my home computer and VT is at work. Are you saying mainconcept is already on VT; is it under another name; if downloaded how can I make it show up in SE? Thanks Lee

[Videonut]

The secret is to pick the MainConcept DV codec instead of the Newtek DV codec for the intermediate codec.

If you are on a VT system with SpeedEDIT, you already have the codec installed. :)

Eugene,

Are you sure about the Main Concepts codec? That tweaked my interest and I just reloaded VT4.6 a couple of months ago on a new machine and I was looking at the list and I don't see it. I can't remember seeing it on my other machine either but could be wrong.

[ScorpioProd]

Well, it's not gonna say "MainConcept" in the codec list. It's THE DV codec that Newtek hard coded into VT[4].

When you pick the DV codec that came with VT[4], and hit the configuration button, then you'll see the MainConcept name there.

This codec is available in any program that uses AVIs.