Should I buy Tricaster?

[Carlo Petrick]

We put on a live event and I am considering purchasing Tricaster Pro to replace all our analog switching and recording equipment.

The event runs for a week and we present 2 or 3 speakers each day who speak for up to 2 hours each. The speakers might use PowerPoint, video (VHS or DVD,) slides or a visualizer. We have a 2 camera set up. I understand that Tricaster Pro has only 3 camera inputs, but that I could use the composite in to double up if needed, or have a video switcher upstream to select the video source for the additional inputs.

We would live title each presentation and roll credits at the end.

We would use our Mackie to mix all the audio and run one audio into the Tricaster for recording.

We will switch and use video projectors to present the speakers live on 2 screens, as well as record to DVD (for immediate duplication and sale) and capture to the hard drive for archiving and post editing. We do not plan to do any streaming video at this time.

I've read of some issues with the codec used by Tricaster not being compatible with some video editing apps such as Final Cut. Is this a major concern for post production or DVD authoring or can the Tricaster export using a standard AVI or DV format?

I've also noticed in the forums that there are some problems with the Tricaster not recording more than a few seconds or minutes. What are your actual experiences in using the Tricaster? Does it lock up or need to be rebooted very often?

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

[Jim_C]

Others will comment on Tricaster. But also keep in mind the VT4, 'soon' to be VT5. One benefit is the ability to record in just about any flavor you want.

Plus more inputs. But also more $$ usually.

[Jim Brown]

We are a Tricaster reseller as well as a live event production company. We produce about a dozen conferences each year for high school organizations at the state, regional and national level. We typically use 3 cameras, lots of prerecorded segments and bumpers, powerpoint. We route output to multiple projection screens for imag purposes. We also record live to a dvd master and duplicate on site. We typially have audiences of 2,000 to 14,000 high school kids and sponsors.

We have found the TricasterPro works very well for these purposes. It has allowed us to reduce the staffing level to produce and deliver these kinds of events. The reduction is dramatic from the truck space, to setup time and personel, as well as execution of the event.

As to some of your questions. Our events are typically over three days with sessions lasting 1 to 2.5 hours. Our only problem has been having the operator remembering to stop recording at the end of the event! We also route audio from the sound console to the Tricaster for the audio feed. The only caution here is that if you are also outputting audio from prerecorded segments to the sound console, then you must set up your audio to avoid a feedback loop in the console. We will be happy to describe that setup to you.

We actually prefer to capture to DVCAM tape during an event and use the Tricaster disk recording as backup. We use Final Cut as our offline editing and we prefer it that way. You are right in that you cannot copy the Tricaster file and import it directly in FCP. If you are using other editors you can do that by using the codec that Newtek provides. (free).

We make our dvd master in a separate device. PC running RocketDVD which allows us to provide a menu page and mark chapters during the event. Much nicer end product that a harware dvd recorder.

We also record high school graduations and stream those on the web. So easy to do on the Tricaster that you feel guilty charging for it!

Hope this answers some of your questions. Sorry for the lengthy reply, but thought you might like to hear from someone who is doing this regularly.

Jim Brown
M&M Productions
800 711-0140

[Cineman]

We will switch and use video projectors to present the speakers live on 2 screens,
Just a word of caution here, as you seem to not have considered it. You will need genlockable cameras and have them genlocked to the TriCaster (or VT) because of the IMAG projection. Else there will be unacceptable delay in the projected image versus the live presentation. For minimal delay you may also need to advance the vertical sync at the cameras.

If detail of the speakers is considerably better on the screens compared to looking at the speakers by eye, it would also be advisable to delay the audio slightly on the audio mixer feed.

Nes Gurley

[Danic101]

Don't let Nes Scare you, I have two TriCaster Pros and a VT4. For IMAG I see 3 frames of delay from Component Input to Scaled VGA output. Just make sure to use the settings in the TriCaster Pro to match the resolution of your projector.

[billmi]

Regarding delay, you really need to consider speaker placement. If the speakers are at the front of the room, you actually need some delay in the video.

Because sound travels slower than light, 1 frame of delay will be added to the audio for every 37 feet the listener is away from the speaker.

If the speakers are in the front of the room, and there is 3 frames of video delay, the video and sound will be 3 frames off in the front row, in perfect synch 111 feet back, and 3 frames out of synch 222 feet back.

If you "fixed" the synch to 0 frames of video delay, the front row seats would have it great, but 222 feet away in the back row, the sound would be 6 frames behind - much more noticably to the folks who will be relying on the IMAG the most.

[Jim Brown]

This whole issue of video delay time exists for anyone doing digitized video signals. It is not just a Tricaster issue. We see about a 1 frame delay with the Sony 1024 hardware box.

It then becomes a tuning issue between the sound reinforcement and the video displays. Bill is absolutely correct in his statements regarding about 3 frames of delay and distances. Typically anytime you have 200 ft plus away from the speaker, you will provide delay lines and delay speakers or else your are deafening the front row. This actually makes it easier to correct and feel natural if you are further away than if you are very close.

It is a simple matter to add delay in the audio using processors (which you should have if you have any size venue at all). The "art" comes in adding sufficient delay without immobolizing your talent. It is very disconcerting to speak and hear yourself as in an echo. We have found we can do 30-50 msec of delay with minimal effect. It is a tuning issue and there are a number of factors including how much the stage can hear the audience reinforcement. BTW 1 frame is approx 33msec delay. A 1.5 to 2 frame delay is not noticed by most people.

Jim

[PIZAZZ]

back to the beginning question....

For your purposes you need a TriCaster Studio or a full fledge VT5. Depending on what you plan on doing down the road... a VT5 will give you more expandability than a Studio box will. A Studio will do exactly what it does and that alone. NewTek discourages 3rd party software installed on the TriCaster line. This is not to say there are some of us that live on the edge per se. :) A VT is free for anybody to muck up. ;)


There are portable VT systems similar to the TriCaster Studio if you want something very portable to hop from event to event.

see www.pizazzme.com for more details or contact me and I will fix you up.

[DrVideo]

:agree: I agree with what Jim said above re: recording the output to DVCam tape and using the buit-in non-standard AVI as a back-up.

I also post the live switched Tricaster videos in Final Cut Pro. It gives us the most flexibility and a quicktime that is ready to send to compressor for Mpeging.

I would not rely on recording to the the non-standard Newtek AVI codec. I have read about too many users that forget to close the recording session and end up with an unreadable AVI File.

[Cineman]

Carlo,

Before Jef had made my head spin around about three times by raising your minimum investment by 3,000 dollars I had already reviewed your post again, and spotted a possible inconsistency in your understanding of the TriCaster Pro. That is right here:

I understand that Tricaster Pro has only 3 camera inputs, but that I could use the composite in to double up if needed,
I somehow interpreted you post to indicate that your cameras would be hooked up component. Even if that is wrong, it might be good for me to review the camera patch capabilities on the front panel of the TriCaster Pro.

It is possible to patch three component cameras and three Y/C (S-video) cameras at the same time to the TC Pro. It is also possible to patch three composite and three Y/C cameras at the same time. It is not possible to patch three component cameras and three composite cameras at the same time, because they both use three of the same connectors.

Nes Gurley

[billmi]

Keep in mind also - though it is possible to patch a total of 6 cameras on the TC Pro, only 3 of them will be available on the switcher interface at any given time. Each of those 3 inputs can be switched to draw feed from the different ports, but you won't have all accessible for immediate switching.

[Cineman]

back to the beginning question....

For your purposes you need a TriCaster Studio or a full fledge VT5.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that you could reference the original post question and then switch (as in bait and switch) Carlo out to only, either, of two far more expensive products. Would you please explain how you determined what you claim he needs, from what he said?

I am equally perplexed by the two products, one or the other, of which, you determined that he needs. On one side you have the VT[5] which doesn't exist. The specifications have not even been released. Yes, I too have read the letter from Andrew that it is being held up for incorporation of Virtual Sets as in the TriCaster Studio. But that indicates a problem for his needs. See below.

The other option that you believe he might need, is the TriCaster Studio. It has been announced and specifications released. There starts the problems. The schematic shows each camera entering the box through a Time Base Connector which is heralded in the specifications as being a new, break through, technology.

The problem here is that "Time Base Corrector" just screams video delay, because that is how a Time Base Corrector does its magic. Adding up TBC delay, and live to video out delay, and scaling for projectors delay; it seems quite impossible that TriCaster Studio can be used for IMAG, which is a stated requirement by Carlo. Virtual Sets is not. Would you please explain to us why you feel that one or the other of these two is what Carlo needs?

Nes Gurley

[jcupp]

I too would recommend a VT over a TriCaster to anyone who needed more than three inputs and can live without the three input monitors. We sell a portable VT system with SX-84 and RS-8 that is priced (depending on configuration) about the same as a TC Pro with a VM so it's not necessarily a more expensive option.

As far as I can tell my TC Studio has exactly the same latency as any VT or Tricaster system. Which is as I would expect since it's using the same VT card that all of NewTek's video switching products use.