SE Unleashed - Free but enslaved at the moment...

[UnCommonGrafx]

Well, I'm using SE and am going to other peoples space to use it. Back in the day when we all wanted VTEdit freed from the VT, I'm sure the paradigm we were coming from was of the LW kind: free it with a dongle.
As I am in other people's spaces, they give me a computer (with their software) and expect me to wok on their stuff with their software. That hasn't happened, yet, as I've been installing my dongled software on those boxes to use.

Now, with SE, I need to convince someone to buy another copy. This opens the door for "Uncle Alvin" to come in and simply learn the software and get rid of expensive lil ole me. Sure, Uncle Alvin may only last a job or two because he can't match the other things I do but that's not really my point.

What I'm saying in all of this is: could we get a dongled version for us Freelancers? Re-registering one of my copies to them is not an option yet it is the only choice available.


As an aside, I'm working on these groups buying TCs if they want to get rid of me. (evil chuckle) Then again, hehe, maybe I'll be the only one to 'get it' so they may not want to get rid of me too soon.

THanks for reading this ramble...

[Dodgy]

I have to say, I'd have been much more prepared to fork over for se, if was dongled. That whole tied to your machine is a pain especially since I'm looking to move to another country soon, and would lose my pc in the process.

[Bytehawk]

I would buy it if it was tied to my LW dongle...

[omeone]

The dongle would be better, but just to say - I has to completely re-format my machine and Newtek sent the new code straight away and hassle free. Good luck with the move Dodgy, onwards and upwards I presume :)

[wvp]

The dongle thing has been hashed around on another thread a while back and does not look like it will happen. :(
That said, can you show up with SE on a laptop & edit their stuff via either external USB or external esata?

[UnCommonGrafx]

Jeff,
Yup, that's the clearest option I have at the moment. And thanks for the kick in the head to remember that I have an external box that would work for that purpose...

Still, a dongled SE would be the freelancers version: sexier in her freeness. ;)

[cresshead]

so how is SE liecenced then?

can you not export your liecence to another pc ike that of 3dsmax which has a software based liecencing system?

other than that can you uninstall SE and install it on another pc?

WHAT is the system?...is there a way to move SE at all?

[dballesg]

Hi,

The licensing system on SE it is simply SUCKS.

It is locked to certaing thing on your hardware and SO.

For example I upgraded my XP 64 to Vista and I needed to ask for a NEW registration code.

And Customer Service warned me that we are only entitled to ask this new register code ONCE!!!!!! :eek:

Then without apparent reason the drivers of my graphic card went bonkers, and when I tried to use SE it was asking again for another registration code.

Luckly I was able to install the SAME version drivers, so the second register code worked! PHEW!!! :(

The thread is here:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71503

Sorry but there are so many ways to have a register piece of software that are WAY painless for the user that the scheme choose by Newtek.

If I knew that SE was so picky with the Registration System and the graphic drivers (gave me problems as well) I wouldn't buy it. Even when I think it is a great video editor and I love how easy is to use and the quality on it.

We need programs that help us to do our work, not to make us jump around every time you are trying to use them, and much less due to the registration system.

Best regards,
David

[cresshead]

is there no export option?

3dsmax is locked to your 'pc' but has the option to export the liecence to another pc which makes the current install end and moved to another pc.
Also max users can have a 'at work' and 'at home' install running at the same time.

not as simple as a hardware dongle granted but it's 'do-able' and costs nothing to implement hardware wise.

SE must have a export option or what would happen if your pc dies or part of it dies or it gets stolen/dropped etc?

[omeone]

Has SpeedEdit been cracked yet? If not, then both NT and users have to see this as a good thing.

[Bytehawk]

good question, just googled it ...

I guess that no protection is 100 % secure. It's a debate that's been done ad nauseum.

[UnCommonGrafx]

Sure,
SE, and NewTek products in general, are cool enough to have been cracked already.

But one can almost always be guaranteed some weirdness with said version. It is a shame that owners of products end up feeling the desire for such workarounds; that is to say, that there are such limitations that lead them this way.

Just a dongle... for us honest folk. ;) (said with a very big grin.)

[dballesg]

Hi,

I do NOT WANT a cracked SE.

I want to be able to run my legal copy on my Laptop without asking me for a new registration code (that Newtek will NOT provide if you ask for it more than twice, at least Customer Service told me so) if I install a program or a driver on that same Laptop. Laptop or whatever my computer is.


And this registrations problem would me ask for a refund if were not so long ago I bought SE.

Seriously, I would prefer that Newtek decide to do a new update to SE where the user choose to wich protection system locks his copy:

1.- Your Hardware and SO (so probably you will be easily screwed).
2.- Network MAC address for example.
3.- My LW Dongle (That will be my choice 100%).

Best regards,
David

[cresshead]

autodesk 3dsmax has a proven software lock that also has the capability for transfer leicences and autodesk maya has in addition theoption of a dongled version...same with xsi i believe...

with newtek already having a workable usb solution for lightsnack i'd think it would be worth their while getting 'options' available for usb locking for lightwave/se owners

currently having read this thread there's no way i'd buy SE...and def NOT until i can also try out a demo version on my system before purchase asi'd need toevaluate speed edit in comparison to final cut and premiere pro before making a desicion...i can test drive final cut pro at my local apple store and premiereis available as a demo..
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=premiere%5Fpro

no such thing for speed edit...you have to buy it 'blind'
come on guys..
get with the program!

[omeone]

:eek: I hope no-one thoguht I was suggesting using a cracked version!
I was trying to say, I don't begrudge Newtek doing what ever they feel necessary to protect their software - and if it's working then that protects us honest users too. And I think it is working too... I done the google search, I wouldn't pay heed to crack sites - they will do anything to get high rankings on search engines. It's when you find it appearing on forums or mainstream filesharing sites, then I'd say the protection isn't being effective.

[cresshead]

so what happens when you upgrade your pc...ie buy a new one...are you expected to buy speed edit AGAIN?

i cannot believe that newtek could be so dumb as to propose that you actually do that...so far just the 'idea' of owning speed edit seems akin to a never ending nightmare.

newtek?.....respond please!

[omeone]

so what happens when you upgrade your pc...ie buy a new one...are you expected to buy speed edit AGAIN?

no you just tell them and they send you a new number, c'mon this is Newtek after all, they don't get it right all the time but they do their level best :)

[ScorpioProd]

I really don't see why anyone is panicing.

Newtek have ALWAYS said you can transfer your license to another machine. I've never heard of a limit to the number of transfers, but again, it is not something one should have to do very often at all. So frankly, I would expect some sort of realistic limit.

Obviously, it's not something you're gonna do daily to go between a work machine and a home machine, which is why Newtek gives the VERY reasonable option of buying a second copy of SpeedEDIT at a significant discount.

But as for the other point, I agree completely that there should be a demo version of SpeedEDIT for people to try.

[dballesg]

Hi,

The funny thing is SE has been installed on my laptop ALL the time. I only changed the OS. And Newtek provided my second code. There it is when the guy at Customer Service told me: "We only provide a change of code ONCE".

And after that installing Direct X screwed the Nvidia drivers and SE asked me for a new code. But I was able to recover same installation of drivers and my code worked fine.

My complain is that the code looks it is linked to something it is very obvious you are gonna change in YOUR computer: Graphic Drivers ans OS.

And I do not have ANYTHING against SE beogn a 1.2 version, I think it rocks.

I am against the way the registration code links to our systems not givin us enough freedom to install or reinstall it, if you do the slightest change on your computer.

Best regards,
David

[ScorpioProd]

I just think the cusomter service guy didn't know the true policy... I hope.

And I agree, it should be linked to your hardware, not something as changable as graphics drivers.

Hopefully Newtek will respond on this thread and set it all straight.

[rbartlett]

I'm not using the install-from-CD version just the downloaded 1.0 with 1.2 applied so my situation may be different from others who've got their packaged media. However I've swapped my motherboard between an ATI X1250 based integrated gfx board with a P35M IGP based board (the original failed) and both XP and SE kept working without relicensing [I had expected I'd be calling NewTek). The CPU, RAM and hard disk remained common. My XP wasn't a retail or OEM key as it was sourced from the company's IT department, they said it was our VLK when the fellow came by to install it for me.

Also, I've upgraded to Vista32 and been prompted to by SE 1.0 to relicense with 16 days but this 16 days never counted down or expired, so I just pressed and continue to press the cancel button and SE started. 1.2 upgraded and continued the same. Of course the license on there is representative of a good unlock code so I just figure the key notionally is a bit sticky in the lock and am living with it. I'll probably live with this until SE 2.0 comes out as that arrangement is better than calling internationally (to Texas or France) or having to check what the opening time it is in Texas or France for basically a nuisance nag prompt.

I'd hate it if a hardware dongle broke, and it is true that the software unlocking schemes are a pain in that you don't quite know what you can change without having to contact the supplier. However I'm in no hurry to know whether or not the protection uses the hard drive ID or a composite of things personally. Some have said that the install drive's signature is important and that might then be the best way forward if you need SE both at your various places of work and at home. However SE is the cut-down version of VT. So if you need machine portability, VT[5] is going to be the closest thing to a hardware dongle until this gets reviewed. I'd rather TriCasterStudio and VT[5] gets finished up first, my tuppence/2c anyway.

SE is supposed to be for a single machine and is priced so that if you need more than one place to use it that you buy it again. This isn't said explicitly but it is inferred. Might not be the most mature approach but SE is about VT post-editing power at HD resolutions even before folks with VT can have this technology for themselves. They could have put a $899 price on it and made it donglable or 'up to 3 seats on a rolling 18 month calendar, 1 concurrent at any time if seen calling home for the auto-update process/benefit'. The current pricing and option to migrate or experiment for 15 days is in the direction of being very reasonable. It is difficult to please everyone and also not make the software as abused as microsoft Office 97/2000. Whatever the choice is will evoke emotions. The other 3DSmax, XSI and Sony Vegas' product activation methods do seem better but also appear more onerous on the registrar machines or personnel.

SE and additional seats of SE can be sourced in various ways through the discounting offered. Even more when VT[5] ships. This will result in even more requests to port machines. I think NewTek realize this or realize this now. Call NewTek and explain. The key failure is just your prompt that it is about time you made contact with them again. I don't think customer support is full of pushy salesman! :)

[dballesg]

Hi,

People do not understand my position, I DO NOT WANT USE SE on more than one machine. I want to use it on MY laptop, but without more registration annoyances.

But I do not want either it is asking me for a registration code every time Vista updates or I change my graphic card drivers.

I've been using Newtek products since LW 4.0. And only the "parallel" dongle broke on me ONCE. When I upgraded to LW 8.0 I asked for an USB duo dongle. Since then NO ONE problem with it.

I love SE, I think the ratio quality/price is superb. But the registration system is really annoying for people that want to use it on a computer that can be upgraded frequently.

Therefore my request to tie the locking system to something it is less frequent to change on our machines, dongle, MAC address, whatever.

But not tie it by any means to software components as Graphic drivers or Operative System.


Best regards,
David

[SBowie]

But I do not want either it is asking me for a registration code every time Vista updates or I change my graphic card drivers.I don't really think it should do either of those, unless you change hdwe. As it apparently did, it is more likely due to a bug in the license recognition system than by design - imho.

I'd 'bug it.'

[Megalodon]

Why would it be so difficult for Newtek to provide us with a SE dongle? We have it for LW, why not SE? I have two copies of SE and to be honest, I've yet to install it on any machine yet because I don't want to go through this hassle. (I haven't had a need to at the moment but that will change.) A simple dongle would alleviate this apprehension.

A while ago over on the 3D Buzz forum I had a conversation with a couple of Max users and they told me how much they liked the way it is licensed. I asked them how easy was it to transfer from one machine to another. When they found out you could load LW on several machines and just move the dongle, they really liked the idea. I would like it for SE too!

[SBowie]

Why would it be so difficult for Newtek to provide us with a SE dongle?I can't speak for NewTek, but will venture a few guesses.

First, superficially it isn't particularly "difficult." Likely it has been or is being considered. It must seem quite strange to be required to do so, though, after a decade or so of listening to endless complaints about dongles.

I never liked dongles either, but they have been a fact of life for me for years. I never blamed the developers for the hassles dongles pose. Though a case can easily be made that dongles only 'punish the honest', and sidestepping various other niggles -- no developer ever wanted to have to use dongles. They are expensive (driving up costs,) troublesome (for tech support and registration) and strain customer relations. (So I don't blame the developers. I blame the thieves, whose self-justifying moral degeneration costs all the rest of us in many ways every day.)

So why were dongles ever used? Because there was little else to be done, short of 'leaving the barn door' completely open. In the fullness of time, though, along come reasonably effective software protection schemes. Developers bowed to the pressure, payed the price, and implemented these -- and what happens? A hue and cry for the return of the demon dongle! It must drive them mad.

So -- "difficult"? Yes, really there are difficulties. It basically means producing a new version of the product, testing and documenting it, modifying printed marketing materials and web pages, implementing a dual registration scheme, database, and parallel online registration resources ... this is not to mention the expense. Rather than pass along a net saving, they would be forced to cover the costs of two independent protection systems.

Not a decision any developer would rush into, imho ...

[Lightwolf]

Not a decision any developer would rush into, imho ...
Since I was never in favour of a software based license scheme for anything (unless it is as open as luxologies)...
This topic has been brought up well in advance of the SE release... and since there is a dev team in-house that knows how to deal with dongles, I think there are reasons for not tasking that route.
Especially since LW users asked for a licensing scheme that ties to their existing dongles to boot.

cheers,
Mike

[SBowie]

Especially since LW users asked for a licensing scheme that ties to their existing dongles to boot.Imho, and despite anomalies - the preponderance of voices over the years have been crying 'death to the dongle.' Arguments for its retention were certainly a rarity... until recently. And I suspect if we had a magical complete reversal on NewTek's part this moment, the anti-dongle hue and cry would resume in full force by dawn tomorrow.

NewTek has my sympathy on this point. They are certain to be criticized no matter what course they take, and a 'tandem' approach by no means a simple one.

[Lightwolf]

NewTek has my sympathy on this point. They are certain to be criticized no matter what course they take, and a 'tandem' approach by no means a simple one.
You mean like the approach that the bundled LW had with the VT over the past years?

Sorry, I don't buy that ;)

However, NT have stated on this forum that the licensing issue is not with them but with the third party tools they include, which reduce their licensing options.

that I buy as a valid excuse :D

Cheers,
Mike

[SBowie]

You mean like the approach that the bundled LW had with the VT over the past years? Sorry, I don't buy that ;)I didn't say it was impossible, Mike - just not trivial.

However, NT have stated on this forum that the licensing issue is not with them but with the third party tools they include, which reduce their licensing options.I don't think that really has any bearing on the issue of which protection scheme is applied. The matte if third party licensing, ttbomk, has only been raised in connection with the provision of an unprotected demo version.

I'd love to agree with you - often do .. just not this time. :)

[Lightwolf]

I'd love to agree with you - often do .. just not this time. :)
That's perfectly allright, I'll still have a beer with you if we ever get to meet :D

Cheers,
Mike

[SBowie]

That's perfectly allright, I'll still have a beer with you if we ever get to meet :DNice to disagree without being disagreeable. .. I'll buy the first one. :)

Hey - anyone here going to the Ottawa Animation Festival in Sept.?

[Lightwolf]

Nice to disagree without being disagreeable. .. I'll buy the first one. :)

Hehe... darn, that means I'll get the other five... for each of us :D

Cheers,
Mike

[rbartlett]

Also, I've upgraded to Vista32 and been prompted to by SE 1.0 to relicense with 16 days but this 16 days never counted down or expired, so I just pressed and continue to press the cancel button and SE started.


Actually it did expire, I must have lost track of time. Perhaps the counter didn't count down as I was going into standby rather than a full shutdown. I'm now needing to call NewTek to have my XP license de-activated and my account reset to allow a click-to-active from this Vista machine. It is the same PC, so I can probably just go back to XP as a dual boot. I'll use Vista just for Vegas7 and Mirage. I've only got 2GB in this PC anyway.

Reading the release notes, in Europe it is possible to contact NewTek-Europe with registration enquiries. Although from the UK, I'd imagine that it would be very much cheaper to phone Texas than France and with the fact that the software wasn't bought within Europe. The XP license sticker is still on the PC, so that is fine by me. I've swapped motherboards (to a different chipset) with no issue, but upgrading has lost me my access until I revert the OS back, presumably? I'm almost ready to buy another copy anyway, just hoping to do it by upgrading to VT[5] if I can justify it's cost at launch. I had enough days to call so I can't complain. Just that as this PC had been activated I didn't give the notification my full attention. I assumed the lock was sticky rather than refusing my key.

[Megalodon]

Imho, and despite anomalies - the preponderance of voices over the years have been crying 'death to the dongle.' Arguments for its retention were certainly a rarity... until recently.

Yes, this is true. But I'm sure that all of those calling for the "death to the dongle' wanted a better protection scheme than what we currently have with SE. Just because we don't like the dreaded dongle doesn't mean we want something worse. I don't particularly like all of my LW dongles, but I realize that I HAVE to deal with them. I would MUCH rather deal with the dongle than this PITA activation scheme. I would say that this is just MY opinion, but many others have expressed the same sentiments.

My vote (obviously) is to bring the dongle to SE. It will obviously bring the number of calls to Newtek for activation and re-activation down to zero. Hey... that's a savings! :)

[SBowie]

I understand. You know, I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be more profitable all around if there were no such thing as license protection schemes, and value-added in the form of service, support, updates and community were not the method of rewarding honestly. Let the warez idiots go off and amuse each other, while those who pay the toll get to come in here and associate with professionals.

[Megalodon]

:agree: Completely! :)

[couryhouse]

Yes portability needs to be addressed...

[dballesg]

Hi,

People do not understand my position, I DO NOT WANT USE SE on more than one machine. I want to use it on MY laptop, but without more registration annoyances.

But I do not want either it is asking me for a registration code every time Vista updates or I change my graphic card drivers.



Hi, this bug surfaced AGAIN on the SAME laptop. The only thing changed, that I can think off, has been itunes and quicktime updated to 7.5 (and giving me abother problems).

I've been a few week without use SpeedEdit, and today I wanted to open it only to find it has change the Product ID and of course the registration code it is not accepted anymore.

Serious BIG bug, and due today has been announced 1.5, I think this has been fixed.

David

[ted]

I "think" this might be more of an issue with Vista. I have Vista Ultimate 64 on a dual boot. I've not done much with the Vista OS because I'm waiting for a few drivers to be complete.

Yesterday I updated Vista on my dual boot and the OS said it wasn't a validated version. I had to call MS and have it re-validated???? Not sure why.

The gal I talked to said, while it was only expected to happen on a few hardware changes, they have found it to be doing this on some software changes.
So I'd point the frustration at MS since I'll bet a bunch of software and hardware changes will be triggering this until MS fixes THEIR software.

[Scott Bates]

Gee, that's so encouraging to hear Ted, but then we are dependent on M$ so who could expect better. :thumbsdow Thanks for the head's-up, at least I'll have a hint it might not be just me when things go screwy next time.

[Elmar Moelzer]

Oh dear!
I guess I will hold off with purchasing SE for a while then and rather get a VT- update.
Andrew Cross, what were you guys thinking?
Dongles (no matter how much people whine about them) are waaaay better than machine locked licensing.
We here switch/upgrade/rebuild/refurbish/salvage, etc systems very, very often. It is good that LW comes with a dongle, otherwise this could be unmanageable. I guess the reasoning behind abandoning the dongle for SE was the very low price of the package. Still it is not very userfriendly and somewhat scary (I cant stand it for Windows either, drives me nuts and makes me want to strangle someone).
CU
Elmar

[Megalodon]

Andrew Cross, what were you guys thinking?
Dongles (no matter how much people whine about them) are waaaay better than machine locked licensing.
We here switch/upgrade/rebuild/refurbish/salvage, etc systems very, very often. It is good that LW comes with a dongle, otherwise this could be unmanageable. I guess the reasoning behind abandoning the dongle for SE was the very low price of the package. Still it is not very userfriendly and somewhat scary (I cant stand it for Windows either, drives me nuts and makes me want to strangle someone).

Exactly the same situation here.

The dongle may be somewhat of a pain - but it in no way compares to the pain of a machine-locked piece of software.

[dballesg]

Oh dear!
I guess I will hold off with purchasing SE for a while then and rather get a VT- update.
Andrew Cross, what were you guys thinking?
Dongles (no matter how much people whine about them) are waaaay better than machine locked licensing.
We here switch/upgrade/rebuild/refurbish/salvage, etc systems very, very often. It is good that LW comes with a dongle, otherwise this could be unmanageable. I guess the reasoning behind abandoning the dongle for SE was the very low price of the package. Still it is not very userfriendly and somewhat scary (I cant stand it for Windows either, drives me nuts and makes me want to strangle someone).
CU
Elmar

Hi Elmar,

As I posted on other thread. The problem is the registration system. Not Speed Edit it self, that it is really a great, great program.

I hope Newtek reads this, and they decide to change the registration system for something like ZBrush 3 uses.

I didn't had any problem with that one.

It is the Speed Edit one that has decided to stop working TWICE this year for me.

Best regards,
David

[Verlon]

Heck, I want WINDOWS on a dongle these days. PLug it in to an internal USB connector and never have to re-validate again.

Its a nice dream..

[Elmar Moelzer]

Hehehe, I can aggree with that!
For us Windows is actually getting in the way of how we are operating here.
Our business model has always been to continously upgrade existing systems (switching parts and then again). This keeps the cost down. With the new Windows registration systems we are getting limited in this and it starts to get more interesting to buy readily built systems with OEM Windows on them.
One reason why we would like to see a Linux version of LW (even though we fully understand the problematic for NT with that and how this would raise costs for the product, so I wont complain about there not being one).
Now SpeedEdit is still more expensive than Windows and I would definitely like to see a better licensing scheme for it.
Having Windows dongle- protected would be much more userfriendly than the current system. Of course dongles do cost money and using them might raise the price of the package. Now SE is on the lower end in terms of pricing so this might have been a factor in the decision making.
CU
Elmar

[Bytehawk]

would it be so hard to let us choose the lisencing :
tied to a pc
or
to our LW dongle (most of us already own a dongle)

there would be no extra dongle cost involved in that

[Tony R]

Oh dear!
I guess I will hold off with purchasing SE for a while then and rather get a VT- update.
Andrew Cross, what were you guys thinking?
Dongles (no matter how much people whine about them) are waaaay better than machine locked licensing.
We here switch/upgrade/rebuild/refurbish/salvage, etc systems very, very often. It is good that LW comes with a dongle, otherwise this could be unmanageable. I guess the reasoning behind abandoning the dongle for SE was the very low price of the package. Still it is not very userfriendly and somewhat scary (I cant stand it for Windows either, drives me nuts and makes me want to strangle someone).
CU
Elmar


i dont think the low SE price is why there is no dongle. I purchased 3DArsenol for around $295 and it came with a USB dongle. SE is more expensive than 3DA so it should have nothing to do with the cost. Although, I would sure hate to have 4 dongles hanging out of my usb ports for different programs. This is a tough issue.

[UnCommonGrafx]

USB Hubs generally hold four pieces.
LW
Mirage
**SE**
Fusion
What else is there?
:screwy:

[Tony R]

I dont use usb hubs. I dont like draining my power supply any more than I need to plus the chaos that can come with hubs isnt worth it's convenience to me. My new machine has 6 usb ports on the motherboard, I just dont like using them all up on dongles. I need a scanner and printer hooked up. Sometimes a usb drive.

You listed 4 options. A fifth would be 3D Arsenal.

[Megalodon]

We use USB Hubs with separate power supplies. It doesn't drain from the system but it is another extra plug! Take the good with the bad.

Still... how much would adding a dongle cost? Curious.

[SBowie]

The hardware cost of a dongle is in the $30-40 range. Of course there are other costs. (For example a product requiring a dongle can no longer be sold as a download from a web store, so you're into a cost of preparing, handling and shipping physical materials, and so on ... not that this poses a barrier as far as SE goes.)