Looking for good CAT5 Solutions

[JohnnyM]

Hi There

We are in the process of setting up a mobile webcast unit, based on the Tricaster Studio platform.

We would like to run the cameras using CAT5 cables. We would take the camera output (Stereo Audio & S-Video/Composite) through a balun and then down cat5 to our Tricaster. We will be using mostly Sony HVR-Z1U cameras.
We would like to use Ethercon connections and heavy duty cat5 cable for this solution.

Here are my questions:

1) Does anyone sell or make heavy duty blaun boxes (S-Video & Stereo Audio)?

2) Does anyone know where I can get pre-made CAT5 cables with Ethercon connections suitable for this set up (500ft)?

3) Can you recommend any other solutions that might be suitable?

Your help with these questions would be greatly appreciated.

[PIZAZZ]

"You are a speakin my language" -- Men At Work

We developed a complete flexible Cat5 solution using a tactical grade Cat5 cable. It rolls as easy as a Canare or Mogami mic cable. The NCAA has been using our design for their DII Broadband streaming the last 2 years. Each cable is terminated with a Neutrik EtherCon connector that locks upon insertion just like an XLR. We use aluminum boxes on the cameras instead of plastic like most balun manufacturers do. The CameraBox can be Composite, SVideo or Component YUV. The CameraBox can also have a Tally light along with InterCom coming out of it.

Operational distances are up to 1000 feet. The NCAA routinely uses 500' for the field cam in football. There is now quality difference between 100' or 1000'.

With that in mind, I have a couple different ways to do the Cat5 solution.

1 cable we use for simpler projects is a single Flexible Cat5 cable. You can carry Composite or SVideo with stereo audio down 1 Cat5 cable. You can also carry Component YUV and Tally down 1 Cat5 cable instead.

Another cable we use is the same cable as above but paired with a twin in a single flexible jacket. This Cat5 snake is what we developed for the NCAA's DII streaming group. In the dual cable setup we carry video and audio on one Cat5 and then Tally/Intercom on the other.

Of course going with a single Cat5 cable would be less expensive than the dual cable.

The camera boxes would be priced as follows:

1 SVideo/Left/Right Unbalanced audio - $150
1 Composite Video/ Left/Right Unbalanced Audio - $150
1 Component YUV video/ 1 unbalanced Audio - $195

1 SVideo/Left/Right Unbalanced audio with Tally and Com - $195
1 Composite Video/ Left/Right Unbalanced Audio with Tally and Com - $195
1 Component YUV video with Tally and Com - $245

1 Rackmount or Desktop mount Breakout box for converting from Cat5 back to Video/Audio is - $295


Single Flexible Cat5 cable is $.95 per foot terminated with durable EtherCon Cat5 connectors.
Dual Flexible Cat5 cable is $2.25 per foot terminated with EtherCon connectors.

If you need Intercom, we sell tons of the Production Intercom gear to our clients. Production Intercom is interchangeable with ClearCom or Telex unbalanced PL Lines. 4 beltpack systems with power supply start at around $1000 See more details here www.beltpack.com

Let me know if you need any more information or have questions. I will try to find some pictures to post of our boxes for reference.

[brians0105]

I can testify for Jef's Cat5 products. We have the dual cable option because we send the following to each camera via Cat5:
- Component video
- Tally light
- Intercom

When we do sports remotes and don't need the component camera signals, we often run three composite cameras down one Cat5 box instead of 1 component camera.

These solutions save plenty of time and work, especially for remote productions!

Brian

[JohnnyM]

Thanks for the info guys.

Just wondering what you think is the better solution in terms of S-Video versus Composite. Typically S-Video has better quality than Composite, but I have read where there may be some latency issues when using a Y/C signal with Tricaster Studio. Any thoughts?

Do you have any photos of the boxes you could post?


Thanks for your help

[PIZAZZ]

Thanks for the info guys.

Just wondering what you think is the better solution in terms of S-Video versus Composite. Typically S-Video has better quality than Composite, but I have read where there may be some latency issues when using a Y/C signal with Tricaster Studio. Any thoughts?

Do you have any photos of the boxes you could post?


Thanks for your help


There are zero latency issues with Y/C into the Studio. I am not sure why someone would of said that. All of the NCAA's gear was via SVideo instead of composite because we wanted to obtain the highest quality possible with the Canon GL2 cameras in the kits. You mentioned having Z1U cameras, you should use Component YUV anyway with them for the best quality into the Studio.

I am working on some pictures for you. I only had pics of the older design not the newer ones.



---- Brian, Thanks for the endorsement.

[bob anderson]

I answered my own question.

[LW_Will]

Okay... so this CAT5 is not a packeted transmission (TCP/IP or whatever)... this is just using a CAT5 instead of a standard y/c or other cable, right?

[PIZAZZ]

Actually unknown to Mr. Brocato, we use a little bit of voodoo magic inside our boxes. :)

[ted]

We just ordered an awesome CAT-5 set-up from Jef.
As mentioned elsewhere, after helping Jef set-up a show in San Antonio, and realizing there wasn't much set-up with Jef's method and TriCaster, I knew it was the easiest, best method when we got our TriCaster.

Not only is it a great set-up, Jef and his team made it really easy to put together. They educated me on what I should order for what I wanted to do and are getting it to us in a rush for our next big job. (I hope!) :D
I wish everyone I tried to give my money to made it this easy!
Yeh, the CAT-5 solution was the ticket for us.

[jh4wvu]

I was hoping for a single cat5 solution...thought a system from Vaddio was the answer but it still requires three cat5 cable runs...one for the video, one for the power, and one for the control.

I am going to be using 3 Sony BRC-300 cameras in a portable application. Power would only need to be connected at each camera, one VISCA cable for the camera control, and one BNC cable for video.

This seems cheaper to buy these cables rather than paying for the CAT5 solution and still having to buy 3 cables for each camera. I will probably spend a couple of hundred dollar on these cables versus $3,000 on the Vaddio solution and still have to buy a whole bunch of Cat5 cables.

Any thoughts on the true advantage of going with a cat5 system?

[TRCC]

Jef, Did you ever get any pictures of your boxes? Right now we're using EXTRON MVS series, but to get a tally/intercom integrated makes me very intriged on your products. I'd like to see what they look like. I'm also interested in the CAT-5 cable that wraps, we're using regular CAT-5 cable with an XLR sleved in 1/2" Nylon stretch tubing to conceal/protect, but we constantly have to replace both cables because of twist and kinks.

Thanks,
Luke

[ted]

The last day of NAB I found the "near perfect" solution.
CAMPLEX has on one, yes ONE cat 5 cable, High Def component video, Tally light, I'm pretty sure stereo audio, power to the camera and I think more.
The "near" perfect part is that they won't be out till June-September and the box runs $5,000.00 per camera.

But man oh man, this is truely a great option and all on one CAT 5 cable.
Camplex is doing great things in this department. It won't be long before others figure this out and the price drops.

I'm still waiting for my system from Jef so I can't tell you how that's working out yet.

[MacOne]

Jef,
Interested in your cat5 connection cable system also - please post pic or more info..

Thanks,

Bob
Mac One

[BELLE1RaceComm]

Jef,
Interested in your cat5 connection cable system also - please post pic or more info..

Thanks,

Bob
Mac One
Im very interested in the pics too....I think we might need to convert our 3-4 Cam set-up with this.

[ted]

Bob and Belle, get in line. I'm still waiting on mine. I'm sure it'll be great when it gets here though. I'll let out a few [ictures when I get it. :D

[PIZAZZ]

Ted is going to have to take some pictures of our new design. I didn't have time to take any. I have another system going out later this week that I will do my best to get some closeups of.



Our new website will be updated finally later this week too and I will have all the info on that too. If you need info immmediately then contact me directly about these solutions via jef at pizazzme dot com or call 409-860-9283

[cameraman91569]

Jef - ADD me to the list of interested Cat 5 customers!!!

I was wondering what you use to roll the cables up with, how much room a 500' Cat 5 cable takes up, etc. Do you have it set up so that you don't have to unroll the whole cable to hook it up?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions later.

Thanks,

Brad
brad@bbbtv12.com

[ted]

You can get reels that enable this. Jef can get you specifics.
The dual CAT5 cable that we got from Jef is fatter than 2 CAT5's taped together. It's 1/2 inch in diameter. BUT you wouldn't likely hurt it if you had a door close on it or a car drive over it. It's far more likely to last a long time and not get crunched in the middle of an important job.

[cameraman91569]

Jef can you please contact me either by phone or email, because I AM interested in purchasing some new cables before football season (August) and this sounds like something that will work for me. So, please contact me at my toll-free number 866-412-8112 or my email at brad@bbbtv12.com

Thanks,

Brad Jones

[Tarheel Cougar]

I've been waiting for some photos and specs also for cables to use this upcoming football season. Doesn't look like the website or photos are up yet.

[videosc]

Jef, I'm interested in this also and would like to hear how yours compares against the Camplex.

And when will your website redesign be ready?

[rally1]

Also ready for pics and the new website, very interested in your solution.

[donald.williams]

Just a quick note -

We purchased our own bulk CAT5 cable from Lanshack.com (We bought 4 1000') reels - bought the cinch ends, and boots...

Crimped our own 600' cables (4 of them) and bought video baluns (Dual S-Video and S-Video + Hi-Fi, as well as ProXLR M&F) from s-video.com

We ran a football game today - crystal clear image - no problems at all - ran the 4 cables together with cable ties -

At the end of each balun we had another 75' of-s-video cable to each camera - the XLR connector is used for our Porta-com headset extension box -

We used the time-warp module and got some awesome instant replays!

Got to run for now - it was a lot of fun today - get to do it all again next weekend - if you want more specifics about how we did it ourselves - email me

This solution cost about $1100 - and worked like a charm -

[ted]

Donald, that's awesome. But the best part is that you had a lot of fun doing it. Isn't TriCaster great?

[donald.williams]

Quite a few people have written me wanting more details -

Here is what I have put together so far -

If you still need more let me know

www.svideo.com for the baluns - (they are listed there - just remember you need a pair - one for each end -
btw audio xlr is going to be mono - you might want to get a hifi audio balun and run a mixer on one end and then run another hifi balun on the other end that terminates into the tricaster line in connection (be sure to use mono 1/4" to female rca for this) otherwise you will get no audio!

http://www.svideo.com/cctv.html

lanschack.com for the wiring and termination connectors

http://www.lanshack.com/Cat-5E-Cable-C69.aspx

http://www.lanshack.com/make-cat5E.aspx

http://www.lanshack.com/Quick-Cat-Cat-5E-8-Conductor-Modular-Plugs-w-Loadbar---Bag-of-100-P2638C0.aspx

http://www.lanshack.com/RJ-45-Snagless-Boot---Bag-of-100-P1341C0.aspx

You will need a crimp tool!


From Markertek

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=MD%2D3BK&off=2&sort=prod&skuonly=0&search=cable+cover&pagesize=20

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=EC100%2D75BE&off=5&sort=prod&skuonly=0&search=cable+cover&pagesize=20


I still need some kind of reel I have 600' of 4 strands of cable - inside of that wire cover stuff right now - and we just wind it around a trash can -

[amospro]

Jef Kethley
PIZAZZ

I make stuff....

see it all here... www.pizazzme.com


I don't see anything there except a nice website with nothing on it. I ordered my own stuff to make up what I need.

Has anyone recieved anything from Jef?

[PIZAZZ]

I don't see anything there except a nice website with nothing on it. I ordered my own stuff to make up what I need.

Has anyone recieved anything from Jef?

these guys all have our systems
the NCAA DII streaming initiative
Webstream Productions
D3Cast - Bullpen Productions
the World Series of Poker both US and Europe
Vision Video Productions for Cox broadcast in La.
even used it for NewTek at NAB and Siggraph

I will be the first to admit that the recent times have been too crazy to update our site with new information. Our event production division has exploded in the last year. If you email me directly I will send you what information I have. I am currently in London producing the WSOPEurope main event. Be back in Texas later next week.

[HMMJeff]

You may be interested to know that these are also relatively easy to make yourself, simply by stripping S cable and attaching the same colors to the inside of a radio shack cat5 wall box. I've done this at least a half dozen times and the results are perfect. If you need more information than that the job may not be up your ally, but I suppose I can post a pic if you need one.

[amospro]

Jef,

I just wanna see some pictures of these products.

[PIZAZZ]

Here is a pic that Kim from Vision Video sent me and also one from a previous TriCaster system.

I will be back from London first of next week and one of my first goals is to put together a little press package of the latest design.

[DMcClaflin]

Any thoughts on the true advantage of going with a cat5 system?

McClaflin Mobile Media just delivered a 3 camera PTZ system to WGTE.

There is nothing wrong with running 3 cables per camera. It takes a bit longer to do, but the end result is the same. Traditional cable is generally a cheaper solution. CAT5 is quickly gaining in popularity for longer cable runs. While CAT5 may be a good solution in certain scenarios, it is by no means the only solution. It is simply an alternative. Baluns come in a vast variety. Stay away from cheaper imports. Anyone that has ever looked inside knows that many of the cheaper units seem to have evolved. Meaning, No intelligent design. CAT5 cable selection is also very important. Cheaper cable yields disappointment. If you plan to run your PTZ Cameras over a shorter distance, say 100’, S-Video should be just fine.

D. McClaflin
McClaflin Mobile Media
http://www.mcclaflinmobilemedia.com

[PIZAZZ]

As ask for here are more CatBox pics for your viewing pleasure:

This model was custom designed to connect directly to the HD110 cameras via 6" RCA tails from the box. They use a Production InterCom PL system for communications. That is the XLR cable you see plugged in. The Cat5 cables colored Red for COM and Green for VIDEO are plugged into the other end of the box. The Red thing by the XLR on the back is the almighty Tally Light.

[Koinonia]

Hello Guys,

Did anyone try this solution from Black Box?
http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/S-Video-with-Dual-Audio-Balun-S-Video-with-Dual-Audio-Balun/IC449A
I know Black Box has a good reputation in terms of quality. I am really thinking to try Black Box CAT-5 solutions.

Daniel

[nogometas]

Daniel,

Check out svideo dot com website before you do. They've got everything and then some.

Good luck

[Koinonia]

Thankyou for your help! Before I decide to buy what I need, did you try the Muxlab 500034? If yes, could you tell me the quality of the video over CAT-5?

[rally1]

Anything new on this front?
Specifically a component video and tally solution?

Thinking of using the Svideo.com solutions and running tally over the "mono audio" connection.

[DAV-3]

I can testify for Jef's Cat5 products. We have the dual cable option because we send the following to each camera via Cat5:
- Component video
- Tally light
- Intercom

When we do sports remotes and don't need the component camera signals, we often run three composite cameras down one Cat5 box instead of 1 component camera.

These solutions save plenty of time and work, especially for remote productions!

Brian

So what are you using for the audio feed?

[DAV-3]

As ask for here are more CatBox pics for your viewing pleasure:

This model was custom designed to connect directly to the HD110 cameras via 6" RCA tails from the box. They use a Production InterCom PL system for communications. That is the XLR cable you see plugged in. The Cat5 cables colored Red for COM and Green for VIDEO are plugged into the other end of the box. The Red thing by the XLR on the back is the almighty Tally Light.
Jef - have tried to contact you via your web site and Hotmail. Did you receive?

[PIZAZZ]

Jef - have tried to contact you via your web site and Hotmail. Did you receive?

Sorry Steve, I was out all last week doing the DII NCAA championships. We actually were using our latest design for one of the 3 venues. We had right at 500' of each cable run stretched to the trailer with 2 VTs inside to do a simultaneous switch of both Wrestling and Swimming/Diving.

Everything worked perfectly, even after a dummy with a pallet jack rolled over the cable crossing multiple times before I locked him in a closet. ;)


I am back in the office this week so feel free to call me to discuss your needs. 877-860-9283 or best email jef at pizazzme dot com

Look forward to speaking with you. I will also try to reach you directly from my end.

BTW Our latest box design is Component/Tally/Com. As Brian mentioned, you can use the Component for 3 Composite feeds also if needed. Or 1 composite return video and 1 Y/C send to the switcher. Lots of flexibility.

[rally1]

A quick, dirty and unscientific picture quality over balun example:

Source - ATT Uverse DVR, component out.
Capture- screen shot of live output window.
Baluns: svideo.com component video.

1000ft over stranded CAT5e
6ft over stranded CAT5e
Straight thought component cables

http://www.rally1.com/newtek/1000ft.png
http://www.rally1.com/newtek/6ft.png
http://www.rally1.com/newtek/straight.png

As you can see you lose color and sharpness at that distance. I will try to experiment with different lengths, and capture example footage time permitting.

[concordtv]

Does anyone have any experience using stranded vs solid core Cat-5 cable with baluns for mobile production? I'm tempted to use stranded cable as it would be much more conducive to being wound up at the end of each shoot, whereas with the solid core i'd be afraid of it breaking at some point from being constantly moved. Anyone have any thoughts?

[D3Cast]

Hey Concord (a lovely city where I spent three of my formative years :)):

I'm not sure this helps much, as I've never worked with solid-core, only stranded, but the stranded would be MUCH more portable, I'd think, and the solid-core doesn't seem like it'd have a big -- if any -- conduction advantage.

In fact, depending on how cheaply you can find it (you can get 1000' of stranded Cat 5E for under $100), and how much abuse it'll take during your shoots, you can even make it single-use if you need to.

And while I'm here, Rally, thanks so much for those shots -- they were a big help in deciding that we could JUUUST get away with 1000' runs for a rowing webcast we did recently. (We actually brought three composite video signals in over one 1000' run of 5E.) It was a huge help to see an actual real-world example, with pictures and everything.

-steve

[PIZAZZ]

Good to hear things worked out for you Steve.


On the Stranded vs. Solid Cat5 post....

Solid Cat5 will definitely break down much sooner than Stranded. It is just not engineered to turn sharp turns and be handled like a cable in video production is usually handled.

In my experience of testing and using several several several different manufacturers of Cat5 cable, I have found that the Clark Wire and Cable that we sell to our clients is as close to perfect for video production as you can get. The FlexCat5 cable is tactical grade and has the flexibility of a quality mic cable like Mogami or my favorite Canare. Regarding flexibility, I am talking about how easy it is to roll and/or spool up long runs of the cable. One of my clients has a 500' run of the DualCat5 cable for football events. They can roll it up just like a CCU or Triax cable. The single Flex Cat5 can roll in your hand just like you would a Canare mic cable. No fighting, cussing or unkinking the cable as you roll it.

I have used the DataTwist from Belden also and while it is a step up from standard Cat5, I still rank the Clark cable above it. I find the Datatwist harder to roll and definitely harder to install Cat5 connectors on.

While I would never recommend someone allowing a truck to roll over their cable runs, we have had that happen a couple times on a event before the cable ramps were down. I suspected the worse but after running a few tests with my trusty cable tester. Things were all good. This was one of the special Dual FlexCat5 cables we had Clark build us for our NCAA and other PIZAZZ balun box clients. Regarding those Balun boxes, I have tested practically all of the non powered manufactures and there is definitely a difference in the lower end cheap versions and the higher end quality versions. Differences in video quality, differences in reliability, and differences in signal distance capability.

To me I look at good quality cable as just a worthwhile investment just like a good camera.

[D3Cast]

To me I look at good quality cable as just a worthwhile investment just like a good camera.Jef, that's a great point, and previous comments notwithstanding, I totally agree. (Which is why I bought a run of that Cat 5 from you! :D)

My most recent comment was colored (or as Steve B. would say, 'coloured') by the fact that I just got back from flying commercial in and out of a gig, and managed to get all the gear I needed into carry-on/checked luggage -- except for 4000' of Cat 5. My solution in this case was to buy it cheaply on site -- and yes, it did not perform as well as 'better' Cat 5/6/7 would have -- and leave it in the dumpster after the gig. Total cost of shipping the Cat 5 in this scenario: $0.

But yeah, especially over long runs, the higher-quality stuff you can get, the better. Has anyone tried Cat 6 or even Cat 7 (which I never even knew existed) for carrying video signals?

-s

[Jim_C]

Has anyone tried Cat 6 or even Cat 7 (which I never even knew existed) for carrying video signals?

-s

I bought three 1000' spools of Belden VideoTwist Cat 6, and found that I lose about 50% of chroma info using the full 1000' and man does it look ugly putting color bars thru it and looking at it on scopes.

It is carrying a full D1 composite signal to computers to use FME to stream 400x300 with and I can pull out enough of the chroma by jacking it to 11 in the FME device control panel so it looks good for a web stream, but I would hate to try and run the full D1 all the way to projectors with it.

Physically the cable is awesome. Flat not round and much more heavy duty than the Cat5 we were using.

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/03Belden_Master_Catalog/15Commercial_Networking_Copper/15.70_82.pdf

http://www.markertek.com/Interface-Solutions/Twisted-Pair-Interface/Belden-CDT-Inc/7989R-0131000.xhtml

[TIMECARE]

In the coming weeks i will be posting my latest project. Its a 6-cameras ob suite running SVHS, tally and talk-back both way on a single cat 5 cable. The unit is a one piece 4ft x 5ft 3mm galvanised steel laser cut and folded to form a complete desk. The six 7in monitors for viewing camera shots have 40 leds running around its perimiter that lights up when it corresponding camera is On Air. The unit has 8-channels talkback (6 cameras director and floor manager). It will be a master piece. I hope everyone will looking forward to see.

[D3Cast]

TIMECARE, that sounds awesome -- looking forward to seeing it. I'd say "road trip to Malta!!" but I don't think that would work very well.

I know composite video can run on two wires of Cat 5 -- how many wires does S-video take?

-steve

[PIZAZZ]

TIMECARE, that sounds awesome -- looking forward to seeing it. I'd say "road trip to Malta!!" but I don't think that would work very well.

I know composite video can run on two wires of Cat 5 -- how many wires does S-video take?

-steve

Svideo takes 4 wires. 2 for Chroma and 2 for Luminance.



I echo what Steve said too, sounds awesome Timecare. Looking forward to seeing it.

[PIZAZZ]

I bought three 1000' spools of Belden VideoTwist Cat 6, and found that I lose about 50% of chroma info using the full 1000' and man does it look ugly putting color bars thru it and looking at it on scopes.

It is carrying a full D1 composite signal to computers to use FME to stream 400x300 with and I can pull out enough of the chroma by jacking it to 11 in the FME device control panel so it looks good for a web stream, but I would hate to try and run the full D1 all the way to projectors with it.

Physically the cable is awesome. Flat not round and much more heavy duty than the Cat5 we were using.

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/03Belden_Master_Catalog/15Commercial_Networking_Copper/15.70_82.pdf

http://www.markertek.com/Interface-Solutions/Twisted-Pair-Interface/Belden-CDT-Inc/7989R-0131000.xhtml

If you like that belden cable, I know you would love this Clark stuff we use. Jim let me know if you would like me to send you a sample.

[DMcClaflin]

McClaflin Mobile Media's M3-CCPTDCV Communications Camera Pack Composite DCV is a portable crewmember headset station plus audio, video, and DC voltage CAT5 breakout box.

These units will soon be availabe with Tally minus DCV support in Composite, Component without audio support, and S-Video.

http://www.mcclaflinmobilemedia.com/...ems/Categories (http://www.mcclaflinmobilemedia.com/servlet/the-Intercom-Systems/Categories)

http://www.mcclaflinmobilemedia.com/catalog/M3-CCPTDCV.jpg