Car Renderings and the New Paint Node

[ByHook]

Hello All,
We have been working on updating our car rendering pipeline to 9.5 and wanted to share some of the results. We started with a normal studio setup using spherical lights, luminous polygon, and the Tobian Car Paint (http://presetcentral.com/preset/79/) from Preset Central.


http://www.byhook.com/LWForums/cars/Tobian_Node_Small.jpg
High Res Version (http://www.byhook.com/LWForums/cars/Tobian_Node_Large.jpg)


We then tried using the exact same setup and dropping in the new car paint node. The first image uses the suggested settings from Newtek and the second is one we plugged some gradients into. (all images use the same color input)


http://www.byhook.com/LWForums/cars/Default_PaintNode_Small.jpg
High Res Version (http://www.byhook.com/LWForums/cars/Default_PaintNode_Large.jpg)


http://www.byhook.com/LWForums/cars/Modified_PaintNode_Small.jpg
High Res Version (http://www.byhook.com/LWForums/cars/Modified_PaintNode_Large.jpg)

Even though the flake was set to 500% with the paint node, it doesn't seem to be noticeable at this distance.

In general we are more pleased with the results of the multi-specular node setup over the car paint node. We also feel like it allows us more control.

-Hook

[geothefaust]

Magnificent. That looks stunning. Great job. :thumbsup:

[Larry_g1s]

Very nice Byhook, I like the contrast in the renders, it gives the images nice depth.

[Andyjaggy]

They both look pretty comparable, but I think I like the first one just slightly better, a little more contrasty and the highlights seem to spread out a little more.

[Larry_g1s]

They both look pretty comparable, but I think I like the first one just slightly better, a little more contrasty and the highlights seem to spread out a little more.Agreed.

[3DGFXStudios]

Did you use the car paint shader on the rims as well? Looks great!

[monovich]

Those are some very nice renders. I'm also finding that at least for me at the moment the preset central node flow seems easy for me to tweak. sometimes I need a non-realistic surface to get the idealized look I'm going after.

what studio are you at?

[ByHook]

The rims are a Conductor material node with a slight gradient on the color, specularity at 100%, and roughness at 20%.

[ByHook]

Those are some very nice renders. I'm also finding that at least for me at the moment the preset central node flow seems easy for me to tweak. sometimes I need a non-realistic surface to get the idealized look I'm going after.

what studio are you at?

My thoughts exactly.

You can check out our studio here (http://www.byhook.com).

[Tobian]

OOH just spotted this! :)

How cool. you know I don't have anything that the shader would look nice on, so I'd not actually seen it being used! I just made it while helping out a mate over on spinquad.

Looks very cool actually! Beatiful render and fantastic model! :)

The only flaw with that setup is it doesn't respond to the environment: I.e. it only gives the speckle with 'lights' and not just reflection. I did try and build a more complex version based round a curve weighted highly blurred reflection node, with the same input as the specular, but the results weren't that nice. I guess you could simulate an HDR environment by either cloning lights to luminous surfaces (which is how the preset central scene was done) or use something like light***** to greate a light array to drive the speculars, when using it with a HDRI probe? :)

[inquisitive]

very clever game coke zero game :) I'm hooked better stop playing

[ByHook]

OOH just spotted this! :)

How cool. you know I don't have anything that the shader would look nice on, so I'd not actually seen it being used! I just made it while helping out a mate over on spinquad.

Looks very cool actually! Beatiful render and fantastic model! :)

The only flaw with that setup is it doesn't respond to the environment: I.e. it only gives the speckle with 'lights' and not just reflection. I did try and build a more complex version based round a curve weighted highly blurred reflection node, with the same input as the specular, but the results weren't that nice. I guess you could simulate an HDR environment by either cloning lights to luminous surfaces (which is how the preset central scene was done) or use something like light***** to greate a light array to drive the speculars, when using it with a HDRI probe? :)

Hey Tobian! Thank you for the kind words.

I also tried a couple setups a while back with multiple levels of reflections (some blurred) and didn't have much luck. The render times were quite a bit higher as well. Do you happen to know if Vray, Mray, or Modo respond physically accurate in this manner?

The simulated HDR environment works pretty well. The scion cars I previously posted use this method. However, I think simply using a couple spherical lights and a lum poly gets you pretty far.

I haven't worked with lightb*itch much yet. But, we are planning on trying our hands at some hdr renders in the near future so we will give it a run.

Thanks again for the shader!

[ByHook]

very clever game coke zero game :) I'm hooked better stop playing

No. No. Keep playing! You can beat it... I swear...

[Tobian]

You're welcome :)

Yes all of those renderers can be as flexible at doing things like that, but the issue is one of layering and masking. Modo now has a car paint shader specially for stuff like that, but it's likely not as flexible as a hand made shader like mine, LW's way of doing reflection is slow but accurate, and in case anyone didn't notice I set the ray quality of both reflection nodes to 0 - this speeds up render time (scene dependant) a LOT. try that on your conductor node too!

A specular fleck shader like that is a type of BRDF - 2 different specular reflections in one surface. You have the paint layer with the speckles underneath, and the glaze layer above. To do it accurately you'd need 2 sets of speculars and 2 sets of reflection, and one of those reflections would likely need to be controlled by a gamma adjusted reflection, which is just getting silly :D The issue there is that the speckles only really seem to show when they are being hit by light, they are more or less invisible in mid dark tones. Hence the 2 layered specular works really nice, but such effects are harder with reflection blurs.

I might have a play when I get the chance of using the new interpolated reflection to drive the speckles as that is quite nippy and you don't need reflection accuracy. just enough to give you sprinklies where the surface is reflecting something bright.

Reflection shaders are tricky :D

[Larry_g1s]

My thoughts exactly.

You can check out our studio here (http://www.byhook.com).Just had a chance to check out the site...great work guys! Really solid stuff. I'll have to bookmark it. :thumbsup: How much is LW used in your pipeline?

[ByHook]

You're welcome :)

Yes all of those renderers can be as flexible at doing things like that, but the issue is one of layering and masking. Modo now has a car paint shader specially for stuff like that, but it's likely not as flexible as a hand made shader like mine, LW's way of doing reflection is slow but accurate, and in case anyone didn't notice I set the ray quality of both reflection nodes to 0 - this speeds up render time (scene dependant) a LOT. try that on your conductor node too!

A specular fleck shader like that is a type of BRDF - 2 different specular reflections in one surface. You have the paint layer with the speckles underneath, and the glaze layer above. To do it accurately you'd need 2 sets of speculars and 2 sets of reflection, and one of those reflections would likely need to be controlled by a gamma adjusted reflection, which is just getting silly :D The issue there is that the speckles only really seem to show when they are being hit by light, they are more or less invisible in mid dark tones. Hence the 2 layered specular works really nice, but such effects are harder with reflection blurs.

I might have a play when I get the chance of using the new interpolated reflection to drive the speckles as that is quite nippy and you don't need reflection accuracy. just enough to give you sprinklies where the surface is reflecting something bright.

Reflection shaders are tricky :D


Oooo. I forgot about the new interpolated reflections. If I get some free time over the weekend, I may give it a try as well.

Also, do you think there would be any gain from replacing the current turbulent node with the new fleck procedural?

[ByHook]

Just had a chance to check out the site...great work guys! Really solid stuff. I'll have to bookmark it. :thumbsup: How much is LW used in your pipeline?

Thank for checking us out.

We use Lightwave in our pipeline for everything except modeling. Those duties have been shared with Modo as of late.

[Tobian]

give it a go - I haven't downloaded the 9.5.1 beta yet so I haven't tried it/have it to try out.

Remember with interpolated reflection you do tend to loose contact reflections or have semi-sharp reflections - though I haven't experimented enough to know if you can tweak the settings enough for it to be acceptable. :)

[ByHook]

Hmmm... looks like interpolated reflections is still only accessable via the material nodes... ?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83557&highlight=interpolated+reflection

[Maxx]

Hmmm... looks like interpolated reflections is still only accessable via the material nodes... ?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83557&highlight=interpolated+reflection

True - and I didn't read the entirety of the linked thread, so this may already be mentioned - but you can work around it by using a Standard material node. Jut pipe everything into that as if it's the Standard surface, then pipe that material output into the Standard surface node's material input. It's an additional layer between the flow and the surface, but it allows you to use interpolated reflections and/or refractions.

[ByHook]

True - and I didn't read the entirety of the linked thread, so this may already be mentioned - but you can work around it by using a Standard material node. Jut pipe everything into that as if it's the Standard surface, then pipe that material output into the Standard surface node's material input. It's an additional layer between the flow and the surface, but it allows you to use interpolated reflections and/or refractions.

This will work for most of the inputs, but there's no input in the Standard Shader for Specular Shaders that are being used. Any ideas there?

[A Mejias]

Very nice work!

[Maxx]

This will work for most of the inputs, but there's no input in the Standard Shader for Specular Shaders that are being used. Any ideas there?

Well damn. Somehow, I never noticed that the shaders didn't have inputs on the Standard node. Now I'm stumped...

[ByHook]

Well damn. Somehow, I never noticed that the shaders didn't have inputs on the Standard node. Now I'm stumped...

True Art has their Split Material Node (http://www.trueart.eu/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/TrueArt%20Node%20Library). I played with it a little bit to pull the shaded reflections channel out of the standard material, and it seemed to work ok.

It's also only available in 32-bit

[Jim M]

there are others also James Wilmotts, & DB&W etc & is there a DPont splitter as well maybe?

[ByHook]

there are others also James Wilmotts, & DB&W etc & is there a DPont splitter as well maybe?

Do you have a link to James Wilmotts? I can't seem to find it...

[monovich]

they've seriously got to fix this one. talk about jumping through hoops! I guess you only have to set up the tedious part of the surface once, though...

[Jim M]

This one works for me....
http://www.db-w.com/component/option,com_remository/Itemid,84/func,select/id,13/

+PM James W and ask, but I may be confused as to whether he did one different to the DBW one...

[Tobian]

No he did one, I have it installed, but I can't find the download site either :D The Db&w is similar but more comprehensive, so it's probably a replacement, if slightly intimidating looking :D

[cscardinal]

Can I ask how long it typically takes for you to model a car like this? I wonder if my expectations and client deadlines are too unrealistic.

Thanks!

Chris

[Nigel]

Great stuff ByHook, looks very very cool indeed. Would you mind sharing how your lighting and environment setup look, or is that a trade secret? :) Simply love the contrast there.

[ByHook]

Can I ask how long it typically takes for you to model a car like this? I wonder if my expectations and client deadlines are too unrealistic.

Thanks!

Chris

No idea really. We mainly use stock models or CAD data that is supplied by clients.

[ByHook]

Great stuff ByHook, looks very very cool indeed. Would you mind sharing how your lighting and environment setup look, or is that a trade secret? :) Simply love the contrast there.

No secrets really.

Room is just the bottom half of a sphere with a falloff gradient on the Y so it transitions to black near to top.

Lighting is 3 spherical lights placed around the car and a luminous polygon.

[Tinpau]

Huh ?

Can we see a shot of the scene layout... so we can really see how you set it up

PLEASE

Tinpau