LW [7.5] Mac Bug Workshop

[mlinde]

Chuck, here's a list of outstanding things I've noticed. It's far from complete, but all of these issues have been corroborated by other users. The format may be familiar, this was the format people were using before the 7.5 b/c patches came out:

001 (6.0+)
Scene file incompatibility between Mac/Win platforms.
Most plug-ins and features that utilize external files do not utilize the platform independent delimiter (/) and pathing relative to the content directory. This includes (but is not limited to) render output files (images and animations), particle files, image filters (Image Processing), and skytracer settings. It seems like whenever I test for this it is wrong. The only place it appears to work correctly is surfaces (via surface editor), images (via image editor) and objects. I submitted this as a bug 3-6 months ago (if not longer). The workaround is to manually edit the scene files to have the appropriate directory path delimiter and path.

002 (7.0+)
Spreadsheet creates multiple instances of itself in a scene file.
Every time you launch spreadsheet it creates an additional reference to itself in the scene file. When you go to render the scene, it freezes up on loading the scene to render. The workaround is to manually edit out spreadsheet references in the scene files.

003 (7.5c)
File(); command in LScript 2.6.1 does not work, causes application crash.
Any LScript that utilizes the File(); command to read or write files to disk will crash LightWave or Modeler. I submitted this as a bug on 5/21/03 with details on replication. No known workaround.

004 (7.0+)
Screamernet recognizes cross-platform CPUs but cannot parse scene files.
Basically the controller cannot parse the directory path for both Mac and Windows. I submitted a detailed explanation of this 4-6 months ago, if not longer. Jon Baker's ScreamerNet Controller is the workaround.

005 (7.0+)
Screamernet nodes randomly crash when loading scenes or frames (with built in controller). They also randomly crash when first polled for use. In addition, you cannot manually enter commands in the SN interface command line (it does not work), the menus don't work, and the file i/o buttons don't work. Of course, the buttons and command line may work but are not adequately documented. You can restart crashed nodes (if they crashed on scene load) and they will continue to render.

006 (7.5+)
JPEG.p causes crashes on machines with less than 16 MB VRAM.
This issue affects all Mac laptops produced before Summer 2002, and iBooks into December 2002. I reported this about 4 months ago. The workaround is to deinstall JPEG.p and allow QTTools.p to handle jpeg images.

007 (7.5c)
Modeler crashes upon launch.
This occurs on G3 based machines, or ATI graphics cards or some combination of the two. I cannot verify if it is all G3 machines or all ATI cards. I have tested two significantly different combinations. I have used the same installer that was successful on a G4 desktop. There is no workaround.

[Scazzino]

Hi mlinde,

I'd be happy to help develop some reproducible bug reports to get some of these outstanding issues resolved...

-- 001 (6.0+)
-- Scene file incompatibility between Mac/Win platforms.

I only use LW on the Mac, so I can't help on that one... anyone else?

-- 002 (7.0+)
-- Spreadsheet creates multiple instances of itself in a scene file.

I think this has been reported and known... until it can be resolved, you are correct, removing all such instances in a text editor prevents such crashes in LWSN. I've only seen this cause problems with LWSN though, is it also interferring with LW itself from rendering??

-- 003 (7.5c)
-- File(); command in LScript 2.6.1 does not work, causes application crash.

I know you stated you reported this already, but if you post some steps to reproduce here, I'll confirm it for you and report it again, sometimes multiple confirmations help isolate specific causes.

-- 004 (7.0+)
-- Screamernet recognizes cross-platform CPUs but cannot parse scene files.

I'm only using LW Mac so I can't help here... anyone else?

-- 005 (7.0+)
-- Screamernet nodes randomly crash when loading scenes or frames (with built in controller).

I've seen this alot mostly related to spreadsheet instances. Is it still happening even after you remove all such instances?

-- They also randomly crash when first polled for use.

I have seen this happen but have not been able to pinpoint the cause. I have found that it usually only happens when getting them going on the first scene. Once they are up running and rendering, they tend to keep going and rarely crash (though sometimes they do) as new scenes are fed from the queue.

-- In addition, you cannot manually enter commands in the SN interface command line (it does not work)

Can you give specifics, I've used both the dialog box based command line (though you have to type, copy/paste doesn't seem to work anymore in OSX) as well as the cmdLine files. They are not fully documented for the Mac and there are a few pitfalls, like knowing to start all relative paths with a leading colon (I'm in the process of posting a web page about using Mac LWSN) but once you get them resolved, they do seem to work...

-- the menus don't work, and the file i/o buttons don't work.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, which menus and file i/o buttons? I typically edit the cmdLine file and just launch LWSN without using any other menus or buttons... Do you mean the menus & buttons in the network controller panel?

-- Of course, the buttons and command line may work but are not adequately documented.

I agree that the documentation for Mac LWSN needs to be greatly improved... and the built in network controller is quite limited. I prefer ScreamerNet Controller for Mac OS X much better...

-- You can restart crashed nodes (if they crashed on scene load) and they will continue to render.

True, sometimes when I set up the nodes to render, some of the nodes will crash on loading their first scene, if they do, relaunching them usually lets them start rendering and keep going without further crashes... If we can pinpoint and reproduce this, it might be fixable... if we can't reproduce it, it's not so easy for NT to fix it...

I think this could possibly be a network controller issue since it stopped happening when I switched to ScreamerNet Controller for OS X rather than using the built in network controller...

-- 006 (7.5+)
-- JPEG.p causes crashes on machines with less than 16 MB VRAM.

I'll try to confirm this for you and re-report it...

-- 007 (7.5c)
-- Modeler crashes upon launch.

I've just confirmed this on older machines (G3's with ATI boards) and have re-reported it with two different machine configuration details...

-MikeS

[Chuck]

This thread is for the purpose of reporting and confirming issues in LightWave. The format used will be the one Riki developed, where items are given a number as they are reported, and that way users can reference the number when they test and confirm. We've begun with the above couple of messages from Michael Linde and Michael S.

[mlinde]

Running 7.5c:
1) Launch Modeler.
2) Select File:Load object into layer:
3) Select an object (any object)
4) Watch Modeler crash.

This function (load into layer) is an LScript. I edited the hell out of it with breakpoints to discover that the script will run until the File(); command is called.

I then tried my own LaunchMode3 LScript, which writes out LWSN cmdline files. It also crashed.

Another user reported problems with ACS4, which also uses the File() command to access read/write functions.

[Scazzino]

CONFIRMED:

On mine it's not crashing, but I get an error stating: Unable to open object file.

This is VERY similar to this bug I reported myself a while back:

When I try to use "save layers as object" from modeler, I either get an error or a crash.

Steps to reproduce

Open Modeler
Load Object: Objects:MeniThings:Bots:Servo:CAGE_Servo.lwo
File->Save Layers as Object: Test.lwo

Here I either get an error: "Unable to open object file."

or a crash:

That bug was confirmed and is still there in 7.5c. It is most likely the same bug your reporting... I'll report it again... including your additional info, I hadn't narrowed it down to a File L-Script bug...

-MikeS

[toby]

002
No multiple instances of spreadsheet unless I "load items from scene" and both scenes have it

003
"load object into layer" error: "Unable to open object file" 5 times with 5 different objects. No crashes.

"Save layers as object" 1 crash, 4 errors - "Unable to open object file"

G4, 450dp, 1gb, GeForce2, OS10.2.3, 7.5c

[Scazzino]

CONFIRMED

1) Launch Layout
2) Open image editor
3) Load any jpg image

Crash, type 3.

4) Remove JPEG.p
5) Relaunch Layout
6) Open image editor
7) Load same jpg image

Then it won't crash...

PowerBook G3/233MHz "Wallstreet" with 288MB RAM, ATIRage (I think) System Profiler identifies it as "ATY,264LT-G", Mac OS 9.1

-MikeS

[Scazzino]

002 No multiple instances of spreadsheet unless I "load items from scene" and both scenes have it

I have seen scenes with multiple instances of the spreadsheet in them, not sure how they got there though...

If you removed the spreadsheet from the scene in Layout (Scene-Master Plug Ins), it would still leave parts in the scene file... usually this didn't hurt Layout, but sometimes crashed LWSN when loading the scene.

After removing spreadsheet, you'd still see things like this in the scene file:

Plugin MasterHandler 1 .SpreadsheetStandardBanks
EndPlugin

Manually stripping everything to do with the spreadsheet out of the scene text file was the workaround for LWSN...

-MikeS

[eblu]

008 (7.5c)
Motion designer is compromised.
1 object file containing 2 layers, each layer containing one object with one surface name.
open the MD Controller, click the Property button,
in the objects tab
activate each layer, and turn on the target option for each layer.
(do not double click Target because that causes a crash)
click on the surfaces tab.
at least One and sometimes Both of the objects in the surface tab HAVE NO SURFACES AVAILABLE! This means essentially that Motion Designer will not work. This is Not the behavior of the same object on the PC and It is not Consistent, except for the fact that it is always missing at least One Surface.

[toby]

I think you're always supposed to use 2 different objects instead of 2 layers of the same - Larry Schultz had a problem with MD that he fixed by saving layers to separate objects. (on a pc)

[eblu]

(008)

toby... does that make this not a bug? I think Not.
but I'll try that, thanx.

*update*
nope. whatever larry Shultz was having difficulty with, it aint this.
I saved 2 completely new objects, each in one layer, and with one surface. when Activated in MotionDesigner, both surfaces were not showing up in the surfaces TAB. This is definetly Not the same thing Larry was having a problem with.

tried to add an image, but to no avail.

more info.
typing in the value for the Target seems to be the problem. It puts MD into a sort of Limbo where objects are only partially activated.
But dragging the value, or double clicking the value of the Target Variable, as i said Before causes Crashes. So....

(009)
changing some values in the Motion designer Property window, Crashes Liwghtwave.

[eblu]

(010)
UV mapping does not work properly with multiple discontinuous Maps on one subDivided object.
when you create two or more non-overlapping, discontinuous UV maps for an object, and then apply textures to both UV maps in the same surface, the result is bad. There is an Overlap of the textures (in my subdivision tests), a ripping effect, and one of the textures is duplicated and inverted on triangles around the edge of the surface. See images below for examples.

in the examples, the head was textured with a red image, and a blue to white gradient.

[mlinde]

(011) Hub functionality issues

Automatic Shutdown does not work.
Automatic Save does not work.

Although it is more difficult to track down, the Hub appears to lose sync at either a certain point/poly count or after a scene becomes a certain size, or after a certain number of modeler/layout switches.

Get/Put does not work consistently.

[mlinde]

(012) Shadow problems?

Use the objects & scene loaded here for reference.

When rendering the animation, the object shadow does not update, however, when preview render (F9) it does.

1) Load Scene
2) Render frames 0 and 250 using F9
3) Render the animation. The shadow does not rotate/update as it did with the F9 render.

[toby]

uuuhhhhh... you have cache shadow map on...