Modeling a P-51 Mustang

[Serling]

Originally Posted by SplineGod

Dont use the splines except for the bigger things. Once youve patched the splines then use the more polygonal based tools to add details.
As I said, dont worry about making everything match up seamless so build in parts.

Thanks, Larry. Quite honestly, I get confused because there are just so many ways to do things in Modeler, and watching tutorials of people doing the same things using splines, boxes or sub-d's simply adds to the confusion. I'm trying desperately to synthesize these approaches, and - so far - your advice here makes the most sense I've read.

For instance, I had struggled with the idea of having to use splines for an entire model like this (even though I'm sure it could be done) because some parts - like the nose cone - could be modeled faster and easier with, well...a cone!

Guess what I'm trying to say here is that I think I've got a firm enough grip on some of the tools to do this, but finding a technique or workflow that makes sense and is repeatable on similar projects is where I'm stuck now. Your advice definitely points me in the right direction.

[SplineGod]

For simple things like the nose cone your right on... use the simple method. Splines would be overkill.
For the fusilage, wings, tail just use simple splines to get the exact shape so when you patch the polys follow the contour immediately.
The issue with box modeling it with SubDs is that you have to do a lot more tweaking. The reason is that when you knife, cut or bandsaw thru the geometry youre cutting into a polygonal object and not the Subds. So the shape starts to flatten rather then stay rounded or curved. This means that for every cut you make you have to readjust all the vertices to round out the shape again. Splines dont create that issue. Also you need a lot less splines to control the overall shape and flow of your polys.

The idea behind box modeling is to start with a primitive shape and slowly work into the more detailed shape. Splines can get you there a bit faster.
Once youve patched the splines to create polys then you can start to use more standard polygonal modeling techniques.
I use splines all the time to do far more complex or organic things but, as I said, I use them mainly as a general layout tool for the polys.
Heres some videos that might help too:

http://www.vfxcast.com/playlist/splines/

[Serling]

Larry...

Clicked on link and tried to watch this clip:

http://www.vfxcast.com/media/348/Spl...eprints_part1/

It's not loading for some reason. All the others load just fine.

[Serling]

Ok, here's my latest "thinking" on this. Seems the front of the fuselage was pretty easy to model using a 12-sided/12-segmented ball stretched and cut to size. (I sub-patched it to see how it would look). Now I'm thinking splines for canopy, radiator intake and fuselage from front of canopy (basically where the firewall would be on a real plane) to the empennage (tail section), which would be splined separately.

It seems as though I can create a spline from selected points on the open end of the ball and points I add later to form the canopy, etc. Would this method create a seamless transition between the two different sections, or am I just making more work for myself?

Want to see that first video (linked above) but still can't get it to load.

[Nicolas Jordan]

Originally Posted by hrgiger

Honestly the easiest way to line up reference images is to crop your images to the very edges of the object, create a box in modeler that is true to the real world scale of your object and then in each viewport, autosize your background image.

I also use this method and find it works well. Sometimes a reference material proportions may not match up very well so this forces them to if they are cropped accurately. I often model light fixtures and furniture from cut sheets for use in architectural renderings.

[SplineGod]

Originally Posted by Serling

Larry...

Clicked on link and tried to watch this clip:

http://www.vfxcast.com/media/348/Spl...eprints_part1/

It's not loading for some reason. All the others load just fine.

Ive got an email into the admin asking the same question.

[SplineGod]

Originally Posted by Serling

Ok, here's my latest "thinking" on this. Seems the front of the fuselage was pretty easy to model using a 12-sided/12-segmented ball stretched and cut to size. (I sub-patched it to see how it would look). Now I'm thinking splines for canopy, radiator intake and fuselage from front of canopy (basically where the firewall would be on a real plane) to the empennage (tail section), which would be splined separately.

It seems as though I can create a spline from selected points on the open end of the ball and points I add later to form the canopy, etc. Would this method create a seamless transition between the two different sections, or am I just making more work for myself?

Want to see that first video (linked above) but still can't get it to load.

You can select points off existing geometry as you said and creating n ew splines. You an patch so that the number of polys match up, If you patch using the knots option then the vertices will match up if you patch with the same # of polys.
The canopy would normallly be a separate party anyways so the vertices dont have to match up exactly. Usually theres a rubber seal of some kind where the canopy meets the metal etc.

[Serling]

Larry...

Something I've come to realize after many, many failed attempts at trying to spline model these reference images with points and spline draw is that I suck at this. (I'm an editor, not an artist ).

So I tried something new: I created a 2D disc and stretched and sized to taste, starting with the fuselage right behind the nose cone. Once I had the disc the way I liked it, I killed the poly and connected the points as splines.

I then copied and pasted those points into second layer, moved, sized, and stretched to taste, then cut and pasted back into first layer, and connected those points as splines. I patched to see how it would look and - well - the mesh is dense, but its got a better shape than any of my previous attempts.

Worthwhile technique or waste of time? Still trying to find my way through the woods here while waiting for your video to appear on the link you put up.

Thanks again for the input.

[SplineGod]

I use template polys all the time to get points to create splines from. It works pretty well.
Keep in mind that you can generate less polys when you patch.
You can also opt to use or not use SubDs after youve created the polys.

[hrgiger]

Here's a few reference images you may find useful:

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...51-mustang.jpg

http://www.heritageflight.org/ACCmed...%20Beasley.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Wairarapa.jpg

[Serling]

Thanks for the images, dude. Very nice.

[Serling]

Latest model & method. This time, I started with a 12-sided, 8-segmented ball and pulled into the rough shape of the fuselage upon creation. I then cut away every poly below center and behind the firewall, leaving only the top half of the engine cover from the nose to the canopy. Then I started experimenting with "skinning" the reference images by symmetrically hitting "e" and "t" on edges, beginning with the rightmost edge and dragging it under the outline of the lower canopy. When I came to overlapping points, I welded them and added polys where needed to fill in the skin (selected 4 points on a quad and hit "p").

The result is that I ended up with a full quad-poly mesh that sub-patched rather nicely. It still needs some tweaking, but I think I may have found a technique that finally works for me. I'll have to see how I do with the canopy and wings.

[OnlineRender]

ok personal war PM each other stay focused on THREAD

[borkus]

Just to add in agreement. There are two people in here that I have respected for years (hint, two quibbling in this thread...) and it does no service to either of you to hash out these differences in public. It lowers each of you to a point that I know for a fact from coming here for this long that you are both above.

[shrox]

I'm a polygonal modeller...