widescreen (anamorphed) image sequences?

Adrian@Stufish · 10-09-2007, 06:53 AM

I'm rendering image sequences in LW with camera set at NTSC widescreen, so I get 720x480 anamorphed image image files.

Query; when I import 720x480 (anamorphed) images into an NTSC 16:9 project WHY DONT THEY FILL THE SCREEN.

If I set a SpeedEdit project as NTSC 16:9 and import the image sequences they come in as 4:3 with black bars at the sides, I can render an edit and tell it to stretch to 16:9 - but I have a horrible suspicion that SpeedEdit may be squashing then re-stretching my images - doesn't bode well for quality.
I can set up a project as NTSC 4:3, import the image sequences one at a time, rendering each to a SpeedHQ NTSC 16:9 by clicking 'stretch', then open a new project as NTSC 16:9 & edit in that.
A BIG waste of time & disc space.

Lightwolf · 10-09-2007, 07:07 AM

Some image formats (such as TGA) can't store the pixel aspect, so SE assumes them to be 1:1 in most cases.

Changing the aspect in SE will only tell it how to interpret the footage and not cause any scaling by default.

Cheers,
Mike

billmi · 10-09-2007, 08:29 AM

To expand a little bit on what Mike said...

Normally Speed Edit attempts to figure out and set the correct aspect ratio for a clip. In some cases, the data to do it properly isn't there, or SE may not understand it properly.

Instead of stretching the video, the direct way to do this is to manually set the aspect ratio. This is an option in the control tree (either control tree view in the main edit window, or open up the Edit Clip Properties panel (F8.))

Aspect Ratio is under the Layer Settings menu (click the + sign next to Layer Settings to expand the menu.)

Adrian@Stufish · 10-09-2007, 10:24 AM

Alas and Alack, somebody disabled most of the control tree for image sequences, thats what I'm complaning about!

Adrian@Stufish · 10-09-2007, 10:28 AM

what (pixel) size would I have to render an image sequence at to be able to open it in a SpeedEdit NTSC16:9 edit - 864x480?
- see my problem?

SBowie · 10-09-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian@Stufish

Alas and Alack, somebody disabled most of the control tree for image sequences, thats what I'm complaning about!

That's kind of odd. I just rendered a test sequence as DV 16:9 (anamorphic) Targas.

When I load them into an SE 16x9 DV project, they turn up - as expected - as 4:3. Then I just hit F8, and change the aspect to 16:9 in Clip Properties. I thought maybe you might have overlay turned on, but Clip Properties is still fully populated. then Did you bring these in as a sub-project, perhaps? That would do it.

Adrian@Stufish · 10-09-2007, 12:55 PM

what exactly do you mean by 'rendered as DV 16:9 (anamorphic) Targas' ?
the available camera preset in LW is 'D1 (NTSC Widescreen)', the outpurt format is 'LW_TGA24(.tga), AFIK the 'DV' bit only enters into it once you'r encoding.
Am I left thinking that I've got a faulty SpeedEdit install ? - I'm on SE 1.2 build 070620

SBowie · 10-09-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian@Stufish

what exactly do you mean by 'rendered as DV 16:9 (anamorphic) Targas' ? the available camera preset in LW is 'D1 (NTSC Widescreen)', the outpurt format is 'LW_TGA24(.tga), AFIK the 'DV' bit only enters into it once you'r encoding.

I used a Mirage preset, which corresponds to the 16X9 720x480 anamorphic NTSC format (which you see most often in connection with DV cameras, hence the preset name.) Your LW output should be identical for all practical purposes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian@Stufish

Am I left thinking that I've got a faulty SpeedEdit install ? - I'm on SE 1.2 build 070620

I tried both 1.0 and 1.2. You didn't respond to my sub-project query. That's the only way I can think of to prevent the full control tree from showing up. If that's not it, I'm stumped.

ScorpioProd · 10-09-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBowie

I tried both 1.0 and 1.2. You didn't respond to my sub-project query. That's the only way I can think of to prevent the full control tree from showing up. If that's not it, I'm stumped.

But Steve, don't image sequences always come in as a subproject?

The control panel he posted looked like a subproject to me.

Lightwolf · 10-09-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScorpioProd

But Steve, don't image sequences always come in as a subproject?

Not if you select the first image of a TGA sequence and drag it onto the timeline (unfortunately TGA only afaik).
The subproject thing is very unstable with long sequences anyhow.

Cheers,
Mike

SBowie · 10-09-2007, 05:32 PM

?? Errr .. no. They can, but only if you drag the folder in. Targas will load just like an AVI or other 'movie' type clip.

billmi · 10-10-2007, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBowie

only if you drag the folder in.

That sounds like the culprit right there.

SBowie · 10-10-2007, 07:41 AM

My thinking too, but you can't really tell from the screenshot.

Adrian@Stufish · 10-10-2007, 09:49 AM

Well' y'all right in that dragging the directory onto the timeline causes it to not give the full control tree. If I open the directory and wait for the list to populate with the thousands of file names and then frag the first one onto the time line, I can then indeed access the control tree.
Trial and error then finds I have to set the image width to be 964 pixels to get it to fill the screen. Sorry but that aint right. For a start they are 720 px wide images with a pixel aspect ratio of 1.2 (as opposed to 0.9 for standard). So 720x1.2 is 864.
NTSC or PAL widescreen images are 720 px across are they not ? they are displayed with a non square pixel aspec ratio but there's still 720 of them, and I should not be getting Speed Edit to 're-size' them by some seemingly random amount befor compressing them into a movie file which is still 720 px wide and carries a tag to tell the playback device to stretch the pixels by x1.2 to display the image.
Can anyone explain what's going on? - surely a 720x486 image sequence loaded into an NTSC 16x9 project should fill the image area. full stop. no stretching needed. thats how NTSC or PAL widescreen works isn't it? - yes you might want a way to 'not stretch' still images & display them with a black border - but you would be re-sizing them (down to 600px wide) to do that.
The output I get is doing a damn good job of convincing me that the images are being degraded by being resized badly a couple of times.

Lightwolf · 10-10-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian@Stufish

NTSC or PAL widescreen images are 720 px across are they not ?

With square pixels that is 768 pixels.
I really wonder what is going on at your end, because I've edited a few TGA sequences in 16:9 PAL projects without any issues...

Cheers,
Mike